Genesys not paying and ignoring me...

[KasinoKing]

I am still waiting for my MARCH commission - and now they are ignoring me

It was not paid initially because I didn't have my payment details set up - my fault I admit.
Silvia e-mailed me on April 6th saying payment was due, but they needed a method.
I set it to Neteller, and chased her on April 10th by e-mail.
There was no reply, so I started chasing it up via Skype on April 21st when Silvia said she would find out what's happening & let me know by e-mail & Skype...
April 30th; Not a peep from her, so I Skype to see if she's there.
May 1st; She replies that we can discuss the next day...
May 2nd; I Skype that I'm still waiting for info on my payment and ask her to leave a message as we were off on holiday for a week.
May 9th; Back from holiday - no e-mail, no Skype message... and no payment even though we have now passed the May pay-date (by the 7th)...


Anyone else having problems with Genesys?
I'm really not happy right now, especially as they are an AGD Platinum Sponsor - I would have expected much better service than this.
Can AGD help expedite my payment?

KK

 

[mgbonus]

We haven't been paid for April either (had a carryover from March).
Not much...around 150-160$ only.

Hmm. Are their commissions supposed to be bundled now? Very strange as they were not once we joined the program.

 

[Guard Dog]

They have been notified. I'll contact Silvia directly - I am not happy with this as they are an AGD Platinum Certified program (i.e., Sponsor) and we do not allow for programs in this category to NOT respond, especially where it relates to commissions.

They are aware of that stipulation in the contract.

 

[mgbonus]

Another thing if their affiliate manager reads this.
How can you bundle earnings retroactively?
IF the change to bundled earnings was done April 1st, howcome it has been applied to February and March earnings afterwards. Those statements that now have showed up showing blanks were not there before this week.
We had carryovers that have been wiped to 0.00.
And howcome the affiliates haven't been informed about it?

 

[Guard Dog]

i've received a response from Silvia already. She is on this and will respond individually to the commissions payment issues and globally to the bundling issue.

 

[Rhondagrace]

Another thing if their affiliate manager reads this.
How can you bundle earnings retroactively?
IF the change to bundled earnings was done April 1st, howcome it has been applied to February and March earnings afterwards. Those statements that now have showed up showing blanks were not there before this week.
We had carryovers that have been wiped to 0.00.
And howcome the affiliates haven't been informed about it?

Were you verbally told there was no bundling? or do you have it written somewhere. I believe this is a retroactive term and they shouldn't be certified.
also, in the affiliate dashboard for the last 2 weeks I have not been able to see my statements. I get a message "you have no previous payments" anyone else having this issue. I've continually have asked Silvia to respond and I continue to get no direct answer. I am not a happy camper right now.

 

[KasinoKing]

i've received a response from Silvia already. She is on this and will respond individually to the commissions payment issues and globally to the bundling issue.

Thanks for your help.

They have now made my payment, Silvia has apologised for ignoring my issue and promised to be more pro-active going forward.
I hope so because they are a very promising program.

KK

 

[Rhondagrace]

Quick update, my statement is working now thumbs up Silvia!

 

[Genesys Affiliates]

Hi guys,
It is Silvia here, Affiliate Director for Genesys Affiliates.
I read your thread yesterday and double checked on some of your comments before replying.

At first I need to apology to KasinoKing as his March payment took indeed too long. We usually pay until the 7th of the next month if the payment details are complete in the affiliate account info. KK sent us the info over and updated in the system, but somehow it slipped through and the follow up between our teams took too long. I just can say mea culpa, it will not happen again.

@Casinofoorumi, we paid your December and January commission in time, in February and March you had some lucky players and ended up with a negative net gaming revenue, in April your earnings are under the minimum payout limit ($100) and are carried over into May.

I also checked all carry over amounts from January until now, there have been no changes to any comissions in our reporting files. Our Finance team will update the April payments in your statement section over the next days. Please contact me on silviah@genesysaffiliates.com if you need detailed information about your account.

In terms of bundling - the board decision to bundle the campaigns was made when the affiliate program was released. Reason behind is, that you are allowed to create as much campaigns as you want. Some of you guys have 6 and more campaigns for each casino. With our program we give our affiliates the freedom to decide if they want to have reports for each of their landing pages, campaigns etc. The opportunity to promote 5 different casinos also gives the opportunity to increase earnings. We do not have negative carry over. Please understand from a business perspective that with this set up it's impossible just to pick the good peas ;-)

My understanding is, that the bundling was set up from beginning, I am still waiting for confirmation from Betonsoft side. I will come back to you as soon as I have an update if any changes on the calculation model have been done.

We try to make our affiliate program as comfortable and profitable as possible for our affiliates and we have done some changes to the good of our affiliates.

I am looking forward to meet some of you during the iGaming Supershow in Dublin. We'll have there also the opportunity to discuss any concerns or suggestions with the Chief Software Architect of Betonsoft at a round table to improve the affiliate program as much as possible.

Best regards
Silvia

 

[WCD Admin]

The problem is that Julian explained to me for sure that there was no bundling. Then we put up the brands, only to have the game rules changed.

These points don't really make sense and are not relevant:

Reason behind is, that you are allowed to create as much campaigns as you want.

I don't know any program that has a limit on the number of campaigns we can run. This has nothing to do with bundling. Most programs are happy when we run multiple campaigns.

The opportunity to promote 5 different casinos also gives the opportunity to increase earnings.

Sorry that is FIVE TIMES the exposure FOR YOU, and you should thank us for it instead of "granting us the opportunity" to promote your five brands and make you five times the money - I think we can get as many casinos up on our sites as we want, there are not shortages of casinos.

Why bundling is actually predatory

1. With five brands YOU get five times the exposure of a program with 1 brand.
2. With bundling if one brand goes negative, it counts against the other four brands. Thus reducing our income.
3. What if instead of promoting your FOUR other brands we instead only promoted ONE of your casinos, then we use the other FOUR spots for other casinos.

Now our income in one casino cannot be effected by another casinos negative... so explain once again how five bundled casinos is such a great deal for us? ;D

Imagine being a shareholder in MGM and and a shareholder at Harrahs. Harrahs has a really bad month. Are your MGM shares effected? I think not. If they were your shares, you'd have a fit, too.

 

[kahva75]

There was no bundling at start and i'm 100% sure, i have screenshots from aff panel showing $110 carryover from december when there was many times bigger negative balance from 2 other casinos and it was paid in february along with january comissions. (minimum payment have changed at some point too)

Like casinofoorumi said we had carryovers from february and march but they disappeared at the end of april or start of may.

 

[Rhondagrace]

This is correct for my account also. they just started the bundling last month.they need to remove the bundling. at least for existing affiliates. IMO This is sneaky rouge behavior and I'm pissed.

 

[Redbush54]

Please correct me if I wrong.....since they are AGD certified that means that their t & c's were approved how ever many months ago. Can't AGD look at the terms they approved and see if bundling is mentioned? If bundling isn't mentioned than IMO they need to be marked predatory if they indeed are bundling now.

And I most definitely agree with WCD Admin....we'll just choose one brand to promote and pull the others.

I seem to recall that Julian also told us there was no bundling but I can't find it either.

 

[Rhondagrace]

This is correct for my account also. they just started the bundling last month.they need to remove the bundling. at least for existing affiliates. IMO This is sneaky rouge behavior and I'm pissed.

I'm quoting myself..lol I stand corrected I believe they started bundling in March. and I also do not have a statement for May posted. I also cannot find anything in ther t&c's that says bundling.

 

[Guard Dog]

T&C's never mention bundling. Most people writing the T&C's don't even know what that means Most AM's that I talk to during certification do not know what that means (and I have to explain it).

Sylvia is dealing with it.. give her some time.

 

[Genesys Affiliates]

Hi guys,

I’ve been reading your posts and understand your concerns.
Please let me quickly explain the structure of our company. Treasure Mile, Mandarin Palace, Wizbet, Lucky Creek and Grand Eagle Casino are all casinos of the Genesys Gaming Group; it is one company having the same share holders. Just to come back to your example WCD, we should here rather compare Wynn and Encore than Harrah’s and MGM. If Encore has a bad month and Wynn has an equal good one, Mr. Wynn wouldn’t be happy seeing the financial statement of his group. From business perspective I need to watch the profitability for the Genesys Gaming Group. WCD, just to come back to your sample:

• You give our 5 casinos 5 spaces on your website, given that all 5 casino’s finish the month with a positive Net Gaming Revenue (NGR) of $100,000 – you will receive a revenue share from $500,000
• You give our five casinos 5 spaces on your website, given that all 5 casinos finish the month with a negative Net Gaming Revenue of $100,000 – you will not receive any commission, we will not carry over the negative earnings into the next month, our casino group will take solely $500,000 in losses.
• You give our casinos 5 spaces on your website, 3 casinos finish the month with $100,000 (=$300,000 NGR) and 2 casino’s end up with -$100,000 EACH (= -$200,000 NGR). The NGR from you for the group is $100,000. If we would not bundle we would pay you a commission for $300,000 NGR. Our commission ratio, in relation to our actual NGR generated by that affiliate, would increase then 3 times. I am taking now a hypothetical revenue share deal of 30%. If we don’t bundle our commission ratio would be actual 90%. The casino group would be left with 10% contribution from which we have to pay all our overheads and costs. I understand that this scenario would be a perfect world for the affiliate, but it isn’t for an operator. Worst case scenario this could lead into bankruptcy, the affiliate program would be definitely unprofitable.

As explained in the second sample, we take the loss if our affiliates have a bad month and end up with a negative NGR on affiliate account level. But partnership and “revenue share” means that both parties should not only share the profits but even take a little bit of the risk for the monthly performance.

I can of course understand if some of you run only one campaign in future. I will definitely support you and assist you. Please just ping me.

My feedback from Betonsoft side is that in January indeed a calculation was done on campaign level, which was to the advantage to our affiliates. From February onwards the calculation was corrected. No changes happened retrospectively.

Julian does not work with us anymore, I cannot get his feedback on what he said or not. I highly respect him, so I would like to leave him out of this discussion.

As I said in my previous post, please feel free to contact me on my email address silviah@genesysaffiliates.com for further discussions. Also, I am happy to see some of you in Dublin. If you are there please come to our stand B6. It would be nice to meet you there and we can have further discussions on this.

Please forgive me, if my posts take a bit time at the moment. 2 weeks before a conference is the busiest time ever.

Thanks for your support.

Best regards

Silvia

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

Hey Silvia, I sent you an email on May 5th in reply to yours of May 4th regarding the sub-affiliate stats question I had, but I've not received a response from you on that one.

When you get a minute, maybe you can respond to the sub-affiliate question I asked in the email?

Thanks

____
____

 

[WCD Admin]

Please let me quickly explain the structure of our company. Treasure Mile, Mandarin Palace, Wizbet, Lucky Creek and Grand Eagle Casino are all casinos of the Genesys Gaming Group;

The way your company is structured makes sense for GENESYS only because you get FIVE spots, but did not risk any more than having winners in ONE casino.

Remember - you run the casinos, not the affiliates. Affiliates are mere advertisers. You should only run the casinos that you have the capital to finance. Casinos operate on fixed odds - in the end if you run your casino right, you should make money over time -- PROVIDED that you have the capital to cover winners in ALL FIVE casinos in a bad month (ask any gaming regulation body!) If you have a bad month you don't have to worry - you have fixed odds in the casino and you should make this back over time. Its the basics of running a casino.

We run advertising companies. We do NOT run the casinos, nor share the risk. But bundling essentially forces us to share the risk because we are being forced to essentially pay your winners with our earnings.

Remember WHO runs the casino? .

If that doesn't make sense, imagine you are an affiliate with only FIVE positions on your page. You can either promote FIVE casinos each owned by a different company with no risk of a negative effecting other commissions OR you can promote casinos all owned by the same company and if one goes negative you can lose all your earnings (you get nothing!)

What makes the best business sense to you? There is a reason you come up with the right answer - even if you don't understand it. Fairly simple math.

Julian does not work with us anymore, I cannot get his feedback on what he said or not. I highly respect him, so I would like to leave him out of this discussion.

In regards to this, your representative told us something that wasn't true and we are discussing that point. We are not discussing Julian. Its very relevant unless you want to provide us with direct communication to the owners so we can make sure everything you tell us is true.

 

[WCD Admin]

Just want to re-enforce that I'm not trying to be snipy about it, just trying to explain what is obvious to me.

 

[bb1webs]

A very competent example

, imagine you are an affiliate with only FIVE positions on your page. You can either promote FIVE casinos each owned by a different company with no risk of a negative effecting other commissions OR you can promote casinos all owned by the same company and if one goes negative you can lose all your earnings (you get nothing!)

That pretty much sums it up. That, and his point that you are gaining 5 spots while only truly risking 1, so to speak.

You can't have it both ways.

I for one, have learned. I won't be listing more than one casino of any group that chooses to bundle - ever again.