Full Cream Affiliates - KYC and other UKGC Stuff

[AussieDave]

Received an email just before from FCA compliance Dept.
Can't post the email cause of the footer note, stating it's privileged data etc...etc...

Accompanied was the usual "threatening" BS most programs have stooped to use lately... if you don't supply XYZ within 30 days, you wont be paid.

I replied in kind, stating I'm happy to supply proof of ID, but I also require Company proof from them... I'm sure that will be well received

Anyway, a heads up for those who this will affect.

 

[Bonus Paradise]

Yes got the long email too.
There is also a pdf attached for marketing guidelines.

 

[Bonus Paradise]

Thinking of removing them from my site along with a few others.
Time to do some cleaning!

 

[AussieDave]

I don't promote to the UK, I'm not in the UK. With FCA and other operators pulling out of the AU market, most, if not all my players are no longer permitted to play. Think I'll just yank the lot and start fresh with operators who don't have to comply with all this UKGC BS.

Edit:
Is it just me... Or do other feel this is the start, of the end, for affiliates. Least those promoting to the UK and other markets where Regulators/Governments are trying to own/control the internet?

Of course, and like always, it all comes back down to money at the end of the day...

 

[Frank]

A few countries now require it, pretty much everything I do, Cards, Bank, Aff requires all these docs which I have now saved onto one file just to send.

 

[Bonus Paradise]

I have no problem with the KYC!

Check the pdf attached with their marketing guidelines.

 

[Biti]

The annoying thing is that everybody wants to see different documents. I would like to prepare a set of documents and provide this to programs that are needing it for KYC-purposes.

I've asked programs also to KYC, but so far nobody did it...

I don't think it will be the end of affiliates, but it's the begin of a bit of a change. I guess instead of content writing and linkbuilding, affiliates will spend more and more of their time and resources on this kind of BS.

 

[bonustreak]

Hmmm, I did not get this email .

 

[BetReels]

Could anyone please be so kind as to forward the email and PDF to affiliates [@] betreels.com?

Thank you,
Jonathan

 

[AussieDave]

I have no problem with the KYC!

Neither do I. It's being going on for years out here in AU, way before the KYC came to roost.

Here, we have to show proof of ID to banks, purchasing a mobile phone, even been asked for ID when checking into a hotel. Those are the times we now live in ladies and gentlemen.

My sole resistance (apart from the market issue - I block all AU/UK traffic and more) is the security factor concerning MY ID Documents. These programs/casino/gaming entities DO NOT HAVE a stellar privacy record. How many times have affiliates received an email from XYZ program, stating, oh I was given your name and email. Really???!!!

Add, how many times has player data been shared! I've received countless offers from casinos I've never signed up at, using an email addy only given to a few casinos in the past. Privacy, spam etc., etc... Does not, nor has it ever been a BIG concern to most of these entities in the past.

Slots Magic recently cut a deal with Casino Max for their AU players. So much for the EGO player privacy framework

Now these programs expect you and I, to freely hand out our most valuable Documents, just on the fact they say (words to the affect of)... We will protect these Documents etc., etc. Hell, Buffalo Partners lost my first batch of KYC sent. I had to send them again.

Under the present status qou, given what I've outlined above, I'm now flatly refusing to hand over these Documents, without first sighting each and every Companies et al privacy framework policies. If identity checking for them is such a BIG deal, then by proxy, it's a BIG deal for me now too. If they think I'm going to send my Docs to faceless strangers, think again!

NB - By Australian Federal Law it is an offense (I believe) to send, provide or otherwise give (hand out coloured copies) of a Passport/Driver's License. Yet, ALL these programs/casinos demand such data. It is only permitted to be given to certain AU sectors, such as banks, police agencies, Gov., Dept's., and such.

Aside from when staying at a hotel oversees and they request to hold/sight your passport.
It happens, but not sure that's even bona fide.

So by me actually sending this data, I'm in breach of an AU Fed Law.


With regards to the marketing though...
This could really hobble player forums such as LCB, AskGamblers, CasinoMeister etc., etc. How are they going to stop their members posting about bonuses etc. Worse, how do these forums plan to remove this already posted content, if having this content on site, make them non compliant??? (which in a lot of instances I'm sure it does right now)

Some forward thinking food-for-thought

 

[LandofOz]

I was happy to reply to them with the necessary documents.

 

[AussieDave]

The real problem here is, the gaming industry on a whole, is so fragmented at this moment, that not one single licensed gaming entity has the balls to stand up against, nor fight these absurd (unrealistic) 'snowballing' regulatory demands. With regards to the UKGC and some of their demands lately, I dare say some fall outside and overstep their regulatory mandate.

It's all well and good complying, but are you legally bound to comply? That's the question! And, if your not legally bound to comply, then a program etc., has no legal right to stop payment & or terminate your aff account.

Just because a contract states XYZ, or a industry Regulator demands XYZ, doesn't mean it's legally binding, or worse, even legal. Of course the only way to obtain such a ruling, is by way of court proceedings.

Something which, imo, will start to become the norm soon.

My good mate webzcas, has commenced this action against AE. Least someone has the balls to act!

 

[slotplayer]

Neither do I. It's being going on for years out here in AU, way before the KYC came to roost.

Here, we have to show proof of ID to banks, purchasing a mobile phone, even been asked for ID when checking into a hotel. Those are the times we now live in ladies and gentlemen.

My sole resistance (apart from the market issue - I block all AU/UK traffic and more) is the security factor concerning MY ID Documents. These programs/casino/gaming entities DO NOT HAVE a stellar privacy record. How many times have affiliates received an email from XYZ program, stating, oh I was given your name and email. Really???!!!

Add, how many times has player data been shared! I've received countless offers from casinos I've never signed up at, using an email addy only given to a few casinos in the past. Privacy, spam etc., etc... Does not, nor has it ever been a BIG concern to most of these entities in the past.

Slots Magic recently cut a deal with Casino Max for their AU players. So much for the EGO player privacy framework

Now these programs expect you and I, to freely hand out our most valuable Documents, just on the fact they say (words to the affect of)... We will protect these Documents etc., etc. Hell, Buffalo Partners lost my first batch of KYC sent. I had to send them again.

Under the present status qou, given what I've outlined above, I'm now flatly refusing to hand over these Documents, without first sighting each and every Companies et al privacy framework policies. If identity checking for them is such a BIG deal, then by proxy, it's a BIG deal for me now too. If they think I'm going to send my Docs to faceless strangers, think again!

NB - By Australian Federal Law it is an offense (I believe) to send, provide or otherwise give (hand out coloured copies) of a Passport/Driver's License. Yet, ALL these programs/casinos demand such data. It is only permitted to be given to certain AU sectors, such as banks, police agencies, Gov., Dept's., and such.

Aside from when staying at a hotel oversees and they request to hold/sight your passport.
It happens, but not sure that's even bona fide.

So by me actually sending this data, I'm in breach of an AU Fed Law.


With regards to the marketing though...
This could really hobble player forums such as LCB, AskGamblers, CasinoMeister etc., etc. How are they going to stop their members posting about bonuses etc. Worse, how do these forums plan to remove this already posted content, if having this content on site, make them non compliant??? (which in a lot of instances I'm sure it does right now)

Some forward thinking food-for-thought

a few years back I went to get some documents scanned for one of the e-wallets on to a flash drive. I was told it was illegal for them to scan my license but I could do it myself on one of the self-serve copy machines.

 

[Webzcas]

I don't promote to the UK, I'm not in the UK. With FCA and other operators pulling out of the AU market, most, if not all my players are no longer permitted to play. Think I'll just yank the lot and start fresh with operators who don't have to comply with all this UKGC BS.

Edit:
Is it just me... Or do other feel this is the start, of the end, for affiliates. Least those promoting to the UK and other markets where Regulators/Governments are trying to own/control the internet?

Of course, and like always, it all comes back down to money at the end of the day...

Hi Dave,

I think several operators have been mightily spooked thanks to the likes of 888 flouting the laws for so long and then finally getting hammered by the way of a massive fine or fines from the UKGC. This combined with the press from the likes of the awful Daily Mail and the left leaning Guardian, plus the debacle over FOBT's being in the national spotlight, online gambling has also entered the mix.

This isn't helped by the fact whenever there is a football match on the TV, online gambling ads are pretty much run from start to end.

I am all for regulation and also adhering to decent and proper advertising so as minors are not targeted, but the onus is on the operators to lead from the front and not be deemed to pass it off to their affiliate partners.

This was a long time coming if I am to be completely honest. But the end game could be very good not just for the industry and protecting vulnerable people ie minors, but also us affiliates. As it will mean Affiliate Programs will actually have to ensure the people or companies promoting their products are not going to spam or hack countless websites. It will mean an affiliate manager will really have to keep an eye on what their affiliates are doing. Rather than turning a blind eye to their nefarious activities.

It is a major pain in the backside at the moment, what with the extra work it is creating for us all. But those of us who do this for a living and have been in this and are in this for the long haul, it is just another obstacle to overcome. See UIGEA, Paypal withdrawing from the space, Google Adsense et al

 

[BetOnlineUK]

This isn't helped by the fact whenever there is a football match on the TV, online gambling ads are pretty much run from start to end.

To back this up http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41693866

 

[Webzcas]

To back this up http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41693866

Yep, but in the long run, those affiliates that come through the other side will have a much more competitive UK market to target. If like me you run your site or sites from a player perspective ( I am a slots fan ), then I believe the landscape will be fairer and safer for players and indeed us affiliates.

I have never listed every casino going, indeed I have more casinos in our Rogue and Blacklist section than the number of casinos I recommend. Maybe this is the reason I get pure hatred comments on my YouTube Channel and elsewhere.

Anyone have a problem with me, I'll be in London in February. Say those things to my face, I dare you.

 

[Bonus Paradise]

Well, I replied to their email yesterday with questions to marketing guidelines.
I already got reply, am in touch, and have to say, they are really helpful.

 

[AussieDave]

This isn't helped by the fact whenever there is a football match on the TV, online gambling ads are pretty much run from start to end.

The same thing happens here too.

FYI... Online bookies were the cause of the GIA being unearthed, and amended out here. They were running "in game betting", which, according to AU gambling laws were and are banned. Hence, that started the ball rolling back in April 2016.

Subsequently, off shore gaming got caught up in that fracas. It gave the self serving Xenophon (Fed PM) and his buddy Wilkie, a forum to push their agenda on anti-pokies (slots).

I dare say IF... the AU bookies had stuck to the law, AU wouldn't be a banned country now. And, the GIA would still be snoozing. Sadly though, that's not the case.

I hear what your saying, and in part I agree.

However, I'm not sure the agenda of the UKGC is 100% Kosher. 888/Cassava have been stepping over the line for years. They certainly deserved, and warranted a good spanking. And, so does any other online entity holding a UK Gaming License, who decided to carry on like this. Thing is though, of those gaming enties who have received the UKGC audit and passed, there are still aspects of their operations which, IMHO, should have been scrutinised more thoroughly. That if the UKGC is genuinely there to protect players, by ensuring they get fair treatment etc.

The thing is though for me, what the UKGC does or doesn't do, is of no concern to my business. Because, and reiterating, I do not promote to the UK. The UK is blocked, along with AU, from my site.

Expect me to comply with a law that has no legal ramification in Australia, is pointless.

Unlike the AU GIA, which specifically has made promoting off shore gaming to AU, a Federal Law. Which, if anyone outside AU continue to do, they will be (as I understand it) arrested at the airport on arrival - if they attempt to enter AU soil.

The Media in UK had a field day, and essentially a win over the FOBT's. And the poli's are running scared, not wanting a backlash like they had with cigarettes etc. Online gaming in the UK, has now become the Media's focus of attention. Hence the UKGC start throwing its weight around trying to appease to the masses.

I don't live in the UK, I'm not professing to know the ins and outs over there.

I can only form an opinion based on what I experience. And, what I have see from UKGC gaming enties who have been audited and passed. There are some very serious matters which affect players, and are highly misleading, which have been allow to slide. To me the UKGC have failed to protect the people (punters/gamblers) they were supposed to be protecting.

The UKGC has no qualms in fining 888 et al for misleading ads etc, yet doesn't identify misleading content/promotions within a audit of a gaming entity, which they passed.

We all thought eCOGRA was the bees knees when it opened...just sayin

 

[AussieDave]

Well, I replied to their email yesterday with questions to marketing guidelines. I already got reply, am in touch, and have to say, they are really helpful.

I'm not doubting they are. Full Cream Affiliates are a solid affiliate program.

However, in relation to my own personal circumstances, where I neither reside in the UK, or promote to the UK. Using draconian principles to force me into complying with framework, I'm not legal bound to do, is what my beef entirely centers on, here. I believe those "facts" keep getting overlooked here.

Hypothetically... If flew over to visit Dave (webzcas) and I still held an account with FCA, then by proxy - being on UK soil, I could likely be legally bound to comply to these demands. Just like I'd be legally bound to adhere to direction from a UK bobby etc.

 

[jopaa]

At least Full Cream respond to your emails. Bet365 are a solid affiliate program too but they closed my account , or put it on hold or whatever they call it.
All of this because "I have never replied" to their email (But I have...twice!)

Please note that I have less than 20 UK visitors on all my websites (together)!

Like Bonus Paradise said above, I'm thinking to take off all the UKGC programs from my websites because of those rules and because 95% of the are a waste of space!