dmoz fraud

[arkyt]

What is your feeling if any regarding dmoz editor fraud? Do you think its ok to game the dmoz system or is it unethical?

There are a handful of individuals gaming the system and no doubt getting pretty rich doing so! These guys think they are pretty smart - heck they've been getting away with it for years, but IMO its time to shut them down and level the playing field.

If we want to clean up the industry - this is one area that needs a good scrubbing!

 

[lots0]

While I agree with you about some of the dmoz editors, the vast majority of editors are good people that don't game the system.

The editors in our particular area of dmoz have been changed quite regularly over the last several years... as each of them were found to 'gaming' the system. But, I still can't get many of my newer sites listed there and they should be.

The problem with our area of Demoz, imo, is that the editor positions are not paid and dmoz wants editors with experience in the area where they are editing. So what happens in gambling is that you get editors with agendas that are more about making themselves money or carrying on a personal agenda than in creating a real directory. I don't see this changing anytime soon.

I will say this, the Senior editors at dmoz are all a bit crusty, imo. if you bring editing 'problems' to their attention, they deal with it, usually harshly.

 

[arkyt]

I think the problem with the gambling cats is not that the editors dont get paid - its that the editors DO get paid by gaming the system! IE theres a whole lot of money to be made by getting a dmoz listing.

It WILL get you a good google listing - the more the system is gamed the better the listing will be. Several top 10 listings in google and you are making good money, no ifs ands or butts. Anyone who says otherwise does not know what they are talking about.

Not sure you if you or others have actually done any research on the sites listed in dmoz, but I have taken a pretty extensive look at each site listed. Looked at site structures, design attributes etc, affiliate links, linking partners etc, its clear to me that a few of these guys have numerous sites listed. How the heck does one person have 3,4,5+ sites listed when the rest of us cant get one?

They list their sites, they list their pals sites and they turn others away. They optimize anchor text links within their sites and others. They game the system and in return they get thousands of backlinks, top 10 google listings and $$$$ in their pockets from the traffic they are receiving.

This is not a small enterprise - its pretty detailed what they are doing. But if you take the time to actually look into it, the picture is pretty clear. Sadly the folks over at dmoz just dont care enough to take a detailed look at things and/or they don't have the skill set to look at things.

IMO the gambling categories should all be eliminated - it wouldnt guarantee any of us not listed a better ranking in Google, but it would without any doubt in my mind give us all a better shot.

I have tons of undeniable proof - and I'm about to bury some of these unethical scum suckers!

 

[inspiration]

What are the main aspects or requirements to get a site listed ?


- # of pages important y/n ?
- user friendly links, only a few ads important y/n ?
- age of the site important y/n ?
- links to the site important y/n ?

???

 

[arkyt]

What are the main aspects or requirements to get a site listed ?


- # of pages important y/n ?
- user friendly links, only a few ads important y/n ?
- age of the site important y/n ?
- links to the site important y/n ?

???

IMO - none of those are most important.

Most important would be to either be an editor and/or be pals / chummy with one. Agree to optimize your site to fit into their gaming system ie send links back and forth between other sites they have listed etc ... Obviously working with a group of editors would give you the best results - that way you could get multiple sites listed in multiple cats.

Each dmoz cat list rules of being listed, but there are plenty of sites that fail to meet many of their own listing rules.

I started gathering info a few years back with a partner at a site I did which focused on industry ethics. I've never done much with the info, but now its time to put these guys in their proper place. I'm currently working on a website that will outline the issues and call out some of these gamers.

 

[lots0]

What are the main aspects or requirements to get a site listed ?


- # of pages important y/n ?
- user friendly links, only a few ads important y/n ?
- age of the site important y/n ?
- links to the site important y/n ?

???

There is very specific criteria for being listed.
Submitting a Site to The Open Directory Project

It WILL get you a good google listing....

Personally I think your giving the odp way too much credit for their link juice.

I know for a fact that when the odp went off googles front page, several years ago (along with google's own mirror directory of the odp) that google reduced the link juice from the odp to almost nothing. I know this because I was one of the people that were exploiting the hell out of the link juice from the odp... I was one of the reasons google 'fixed' the odp (and low quality directories) link juice. Hey it bought me a realy nice boat, while it lasted, and no I was not an editor.

Now the only SEO benifit from the odp is a few of the links you might get from start up directories that are using the odp's listings for seed. But those, for the most part, are low quality links with very little or no SEO benifit.

//added// IMO, your better off SEO wise, spending money for a Yahoo directory listing, than bothering with the odp.

 

[Vladi]

We recently had a site listed that we submitted maybe 2 years ago. We didn't pay anyone (wouldn't know who to pay even if I could), and don't know any editors. We just submitted it and waited. Who knows, maybe even someone else submitted it later than us and that is what got us listed? They are very slow but you can get listed - and I can only imagine the number of submissions they have to go through with the amount of spammers in this industry.

Most important criteria to get listed? Make a site that is useful to people, have something different and valuable. "SEO" factors like number of links has nothing to do with it... it shows you don't understand the directory at all. It is supposed to be a directory of useful sites for real people. However the actual traffic we have seen from dmoz is almost zero, so I suspect that very few "real people" actually use it at all.

Having said that, there sure are a lot of crap sites in there, but I figure they have been in there for a long time.

 

[arkyt]

Now the only SEO benifit from the odp is a few of the links you might get from start up directories that are using the odp's listings for seed. But those, for the most part, are low quality links with very little or no SEO benifit.

You wont get much traffic from dmoz - thats not the objective. You can get a whole lot of backlinks from a dmoz listing as there still are a lot of sites using their data dump - that pushes you up in Google.

Trust me - if there was no benefit from being listed - there wouldn't be much fraud. I honestly do not think Google has devalued the listings / links much at all over the years.

 

[Vladi]

//added// IMO, your better off SEO wise, spending money for a Yahoo directory listing, than bothering with the odp.

Except that you can't do that in this industry.

Please note: Yahoo! Directory does not accept listings for online gambling sites and prescription drug sites. Online gambling sites are those that have gambling as their central theme, including those that accept wagers or require payment in exchange for the chance to win prizes, as well as sites that offer both information and links related primarily to the promotion of online gambling.

 

[lots0]

Trust me - if there was no benefit from being listed - there wouldn't be much fraud. I honestly do not think Google has devalued the listings / links much at all over the years.

Well all I can say is at one time, many years ago there was juice and now there is not any.

The odp SEO myth is just like the reciprocal or three way link myth.
So much evidence to show that it does not work for SEO and actually linking exchanges even hurt you... but everyday I still get tons of emails from morons wanting to link exchange in one way or another.

I'll tell you this... if the odp was passing link juice again... I'd buy me a new 5 bedroom 4 bath house with some land. But I'm not in the market, cuz there ain't no link juice from the odp. BELIEVE ME, I WISH THERE WAS!!!

Right now the odp is not even a top tear directory imo, because like someone alread said... there are a lot of crappy sites in it. But they do keep working to try to improve it.. thats one of the big reasons they killed the link juice. They want a good directory, not a SEO hang out or spam haven.

Problem is people have not picked up on that and are still trying to spam them all the time.

 

[lots0]

Except that you can't do that in this industry.

sure you can. Just not in any of the english/euro Yahoo's... Look toward the rising sun and the big Panda land.

and that SEO tip is free... ;D

 

[abscident]

I really hope the odp doesn't give much link juice, because I really think it is almost impossible for any of us to get listed there, and it would be an unfair advantage for those who are.

 

[Vladi]

Nice tip but seeing as I don't speak or write Chinese and only a tiny bit of Japanese, nor are our websites in those languages I would assume it would be very long odds to get included?

abscident .. read my previous post. You can get included, it takes time and a good website.

 

[greek39]

Keeping with spirit of the intent of the thread "dmoz fraud."

Plausible IMO power corrupts the best of people. I think most of us witnessed the rise and fall from grace.

Interesting topic in anyways.


From May 18, 2010

Former Dmoz Editor: Corruption Was Caught Quickly
Dmoz Had Supervision by "Very Suspicious" Editors

"I have actually personally heard from someone who has bribed the editors multiple times to get listed with great-quick results."


source:Former Dmoz Editor: Corruption Was Caught Quickly | WebProNews

greek39

 

[dominique]

Well, it took me some 9 years and thousands of content pages on my site to get into DMOZ and I sure don't see any change in rankings.

 

[arkyt]

Well all I can say is at one time, many years ago there was juice and now there is not any.

I wholly disagree, but that doesnt matter because even if I were over estimating the value of the links that wouldn't make whats going on right and/or excusable.

 

[WCD Admin]

Well, it took me some 9 years and thousands of content pages on my site to get into DMOZ and I sure don't see any change in rankings.

I see your site all over the place.

I'd venture:

(a) dmoz listing helps to get you into the major leagues
(b) you may not have noticed because you were already there.

because most people in the top ranks have dmoz listings you don't notice much change in the SERP because the people you are now competing against also have dmoz listings

 

[dominique]

I see your site all over the place.

I'd venture:

(a) dmoz listing helps to get you into the major leagues
(b) you may not have noticed because you were already there.

because most people in the top ranks have dmoz listings you don't notice much change in the SERP because the people you are now competing against also have dmoz listings

It's b.

After all these years and all that content I had enough natural links to already be there. It's just another quality link among others. I saw zero changes for GamesandCasino after getting into DMOZ.

I can see how a site without a lot of natural quality links might profit a lot from a quality link like DMOZ. Or especially a young site, or a small site with little unique info that people may link to.

If the people I am competing against have DMOZ listings, then I did pretty darn good for myself all these years without listing.

 

[Simmo!]

I agree with most of the points in this thread and with Arkyt that the way a number of editors use DMOZ is very frustrating, but at the end of the day it's just another link.

I must have submitted 80 - 100 sites in and outside online gaming down the years - some really good ones too - and only ever had 4 or 5 listed. I guess sometimes it's ignored, other times editors don't take the time to look at it properly or in some cases they have their own agendas. But hey, why waste time worrying about it. Plenty of other opportunities and avenues to follow.

 

[arkyt]

Looks like a bundle of trash is on the conveyor headed to the furnace. In a few months the playing field is sure to be a bit more level!

I dont agree with those who claim its just another link - there are still plenty of sites using their RDF dump and that equals a whole lot more than just another link. Again - make no doubt about it - the fraud exist because its highly beneficial to the perpetrators!