Casino Cashout Levels

Discussion in 'Affiliate and Program Issues' started by Guard Dog, Sep 3, 2010.

What is an appropriate weekly cashout level for winnings?

  1. $750 / week

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. $2500 / week

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. $3000 / week

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. $5000 / week

    2 vote(s)
    8.3%
  5. $10,000 / week

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Should be created on a player by player basis

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Should depend upon the size of the win

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. There should be no restrictions on cashout

    22 vote(s)
    91.7%
  1.  
    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    ISSUE:
    Online Casinos will typically let players deposit any amount of money into the casino. A player could deposit $100 or $10,000 with no issues. When that player WINS, though, they are restricted on the amount of money they can withdrawal. Cashout limits range from $750 / week to unlimited. A very typical weekly cashout is $2500-$3000 / week.

    Where does this leave affiliates?

    The problem I see (and others see as well) is that it can become very difficult to land and keep a high roller with such paltry cashout levels. A good high roller would never accept this. Which means that high rollers will go elsewhere and not be 'retained'.

    Where does this leave players?
    A player who wins a decent amount and has to wait weeks, months, or years, to realize that winning will be very frustrated with this payout schedule. Maybe they will play back some of that money, maybe they will move on to a casino that doesn't have such petty cashouts.

    What happens now?
    I have said this before.... when Vegas casinos come online, any casino with a cashout level can kiss their players goodbye. Who would accept that when Vegas would pay you all your winnings in near-immediate fashion? Answer - not many (IMO)


    A poll is attached, but it is really tough to create something that captures the mindset here. Feel free to take part in the poll or, better yet, let's discusss.
     
  2.  
    lots0

    lots0 Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Ya these online guys need to realize that they are soon going to be competing head to head, in the US, with land based outfits that have moved online and who will have a lot of resources to provide players, including virtually instant deposits and withdrawals with no limits, just like the land based casinos offer players now.

    Low cash out limits scream that the casino does NOT have the cash reserves to pay a big winner...

    If you don't have the money to cashout the player on the spot, don't take the bet in the first place.
     
  3.  
    Aussie-Dave

    Aussie-Dave Former AGD Member

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    Hi All,

    Top thread lots0 ;D

    The way I see it and always have...if online casinos want to set up shop and call themselves a "CASINO" and in doing so accept unlimited deposits from players, then it goes without question there should be none of the BS associated to max withdrawal limits.

    If a casino can not pay its players their full amount of winning in one payment, then do the following:
    • Limit players deposits per week.
    • Don't accept bets you can not cover (by full payment if won).
    • Don't open an online casino, simple.

    It gets to a point where it is comical, that most online casinos imply they are just like Vegas or other world class B&M casinos. However only a small majority operate in such parallels with land based counterparts.

    I suppose when the US opens up to online casinos based on their shores; not if but when, casinos that enforce these ridiculous max cash out rules will be dropping like flies.

    Edit: And industry folk shake their heads is dismay as to why most Governments are focused on exterminate/banning online casinos from their Countries.

    Cheers

    :)

    Dave
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2010
  4.  
    Simmo!

    Simmo! Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    As a player myself, its one of the first things I check. If there are restrictions, I would rarely play there for my own entertainment unless there was something amazing like regular slot tournies or something. Plus, max cashouts immediately says to me that the operation is underfunded.

    If a casino hasn't got the funds to pay players when they win, immediately, then they shouldn't be in the game IMO. After all, the really big wins are generally network progressives which funds come from the operator. It must be rare for a player to win 100k without a progressive and if that's still a problem, then set bet limits you can afford to pay out on rather than restrict limits.

    However, all that said, I can perfectly understand why restrictions are necessary for players who haven't yet been ID'ed and on bonus play, but once they have verified you and chosen to let you play on then drop the restriction.

    As an affiliate, I will always tell the player what the max. cashout limit is if it exists. I'd rather they find out while they are still on my website and able to make a choice rather than find ths out down the line after I lost the chance to convert them.
     
  5.  
    Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Ditto here Simmo. Over the last few years, I have now limited my play to 3 casinos....32Red, Inetbet and 3Dice. I know that if I ever did get lucky and managed to win 20K or more....within 48 hrs MAX, I am going to have the FULL amount in my bank account, MB account, whatever. No way in hell am I waiting any longer than that for MY money. And if all players would adopt that mindset, then the clipjoints with these low max cashouts, would have to either pull up their socks and compete, or get out of the business.

    Max cashouts are a joke...as are casinos that don't process cashouts seven days a week. It's a 24/7 business, and as such, all aspects of that business should be operational at all times..including a cashier, promo dept., managerial staff, etc.
     
  6.  
    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    Excellent posts. Max cashouts ARE a joke, IMO. They are geared only towards forcing players to play back their winnings. What these places do not understand is that they are limiting the amount of quality players by instating such limits. Good players would rather withdrawal winnings and then play it back... not just playthrough... what is the fun in that? There is not even a 'sense' of winning that way.

    It just keeps good players out and kills retention.
     
  7.  
    jimmiet

    jimmiet Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    It depends

    The country that you live in ie: USSA (no misprint) has restrictions on how much money you can transact. If you have the good sense to have an offshore account then there should be no restrictions but if you bring your cash into the grasp of the Obamanation, you better play by their rules and prepare to give most of it up. :>)

    As far as the casino goes they calculate how much % they are going to give away so when you win it....let it go. I don't understand these complaints and how these casinos work. I'm sure they are in the green or they wouldn't be doing this in the first place. If a player wins on a slot machine there obviosly is no fraud so pay up and be done with it.
     
  8.  
    Guard Dog

    Guard Dog Guard Dog Staff Member

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    I do not believe the US has restrictions on max. What they do have is an automatic system which flags wires greater than $5k (I believe that is the trigger point), though, and will investigate where that money came from.

    Even with this - many players running against these max cashout limits are not even from the US. Plus, many are using eWallets which also do not have restrictions. So - no reason to limit.... just pay up.
     
  9.  
    Aussie-Dave

    Aussie-Dave Former AGD Member

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    I don't know where my heads at sometimes.
    Too much work starts to erode brain function. Either that or old man disease...lol

    I should have said... Top Thread Guard Dog ;D

    I only play at 32Red now and have been doing so for the last 12 months. After gambling online since 97 they are the first online casino who have paid me with a Bank Wire that arrived in my Australian bank account in 14 hours.

    That's from the time it was sent from the casino (Monday 1pm). Which btw I cashed out on the Sunday. Things don't get much better than this!

    32Red pays me to Neteller in less than 24 hours. Not small figures either. Some are as high as $18K. IMHO if they can do this so can other casinos. If a casino has to set withdrawal limits & or delay the processing of payments longer than 48hours - unless awaiting ID docs, they shouldn't be running a casino, period!


    Cheers

    :)

    Dave
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010
  10.  
    Vladi

    Vladi Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    The big problem is that it is far too easy to set up an online casino. The barriers to entry are too low. The reason these crap TopGame, Rivals, RTGs etc have sprung up recently with low cashout restrictions is because they are being run by 2 or 3 people. They have little or no gaming experience and they could be anywhere in the world. The startup and ongoing costs are relatively low and there are heaps of fools/crooks who think running a casino is a paved yellow-brick road to the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

    In reality its the difference between playing at The Wynn vs some mom & pop convenience store. Trouble is, every one of these 2-penny online casinos misrepresents themselves as The Wynn.

    Now in most other industries such levelling of the playing field via the internet is great for all of us, but the online gambling industry is one of the very rare exceptions to the rule. U.S. regulation cannot come soon enough. Hopefully it will be the catalyst to send these places to the bin where they belong.
     
  11.  
    Aussie-Dave

    Aussie-Dave Former AGD Member

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    Like anything, talk is cheap and these mom & pop casinos do a lot of that, just talk!


    Cheers

    :)

    Dave
     
  12.  
    KasinoKing

    KasinoKing Player turned affiliate.

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    You & me both, bro! :emoticon-0138-think

    KK
     
  13.  
    Aussie-Dave

    Aussie-Dave Former AGD Member

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    I did a doosey today. Whilst cleaning my desktop I deleted "My Computer"...Took me another 30 min or so to remember where to get a shortcut to replace it ;D

    I'm well over due for a holiday...You know just laying on a beach and doing FA.


    Cheers

    :)

    Dave
     
  14.  
    Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    I just wanted to add in one other issue that did get brought up in another thread here....progressive jackpots. Too many casinos impose these max cashout limits to progressive wins, and that is so completely wrong. Progressive monies are accrued from each spin of a slot, hand of cards, etc. and the jackpot itself is pooled from all casinos running that particular software. The funds should be held separately by the software provider, and disbursed in one lump sum when the jackpot is won. That money does NOT belong to any casino, or software provider...it belongs to each and every player who plays, or has played, a particular game. For any casino to limit progressive payouts to a weekly or monthly sum...is pure rogue. Just think about winning half a million or more....and being told it will be doled out to you in installments of 5K a month.

    Rival are one of the worst offenders of this...with the exception of Slotocash. And while Nicolas was still there, I know that he got Vegas Regal to change their policy so that progressives would be paid out in full when won. Beyond that, I don't know...but maybe some of the affiliates who promote a ton of Rivals could find out where they stand on this?

    And I don't wish to derail the thread...but it really does my heart good to see this site take some of these player issues seriously. At least give us the opportunity to talk about them. I have come down very hard on affiliates in the past (and recently too, lol). But I still believe that the only way to truly make things better is for everyone to work together....players, affiliates, software providers and operators. I don't place blame for all the crap stuff that goes on solely at the feet of affiliates, not by a long shot. It is just that up until now, there hasn't really been an affiliate venue that cared enough to actually welcome and listen to player's interests and concerns. So for that, I thank you.

    I have lots to say, and an opinion on everything...be warned. :p
     
  15.  
    Aussie-Dave

    Aussie-Dave Former AGD Member

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    Hi All,

    Good post Pina :emoticon-0137-clapp

    Your synopsis of Jackpots and the funds won from them is spot on. I too believe any casino that does not pay out the full amount on any jackpot should be rogued too.

    Cliche`, but we're all in this together. Although a marginal % of affiliates have always listened and acted in the best interests of players, the majority seem to not be concerned with issues at XYZ casino unless it affects their income.

    Sorry if that's harsh but it's the truth.

    The industry that us old timers cut our teeth on has changed. In a lot of way for the better of players and affiliates. However the issue of SPAM, not only from a player perspective but also from affiliate site owners is becoming an epidemic.

    To give and example, my day is taken up with around 3 hours of numerous blogs I have and stats to see which site is spamming me today. From that I do a whois look up on every IP and block the entire Net Range.

    Fortunately my sites are Australian facing so blocking entire Countries doesn't phase me.

    However, IMHO casino affiliate programs need to take more responsibility on who they allow to promote their properties. Just handing out affiliate accounts to anyone that comes knocking, is not doing the industry on a whole any good.

    I personally think it's time the industry realised unless it starts becoming accountable sooner than later, pretty soon we wont have an industry. Or if we do, it will probably be regulated and operated from the USA.

    From a players perspective that maybe a good thing. However from an affiliate's point of view I doubt it will be that great.

    Anyway, I'm all for listening to players and their suggestions and input. But in saying that, I also think the majority of players need to understand that not all gaming affiliates are only looking out for #1.

    Maybe its a process of education on both sides of the fence.

    Edit: Maybe time to split this thread before it goes too far off topic.



    Cheers

    :)

    Dave
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2010
  16.  
    leporello

    leporello Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    no restrictions, anything else is ridiculous.
     
  17.  
    slotsaff

    slotsaff Affiliate Guard Dog Member

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    Not sure why this poll came up in the 'New Posts' feed - but restrictions are bad news :)
     

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