Bundling

[dominique]

When you look at the list of Program evaluations at AGD you will see some with the bundling symbol.

Bundling is when a program has several casinos and if you have a winner in one casino it wipes out earnings in all of them.

That can have a serious impact on your earnings.

What is the way you deal with bundling? Do you just stay away? Do you advertise only one casino from that program? Do you try to open a seperate account for each casino? Do you try to get the program to allow you to sign up as a group, so that winners are spread over a much larger group of players and are offset easier? (That is something I read about but never saw done).

Your thoughts?

 

[WCD Admin]

I think this is one of the most important issues out there. Your options are:

(a) if you don't promote them, don't start, or only promote one brand - but really that doesn't make much sense either - the idea is to pressure them into changing the term by refusing to do business with them.

(b) if you already promote them, pressure them to remove the term, explain who AGD is, and try to get them to see the fact that they have more to gain than to lose. (more affiliates + you'll promote the other brands, etc)

(c) opening another account is one way to go, but it could be risky if the company is underhanded - the rule is put in place for $$ reasons to begin with, so if they figure it out you might not get paid.

(d) if they are your top earner, ask for an exception, your family is most important. if they won't give that to you, stick with the primary brand.

Do you try to get the program to allow you to sign up as a group, so that winners are spread over a much larger group of players and are offset easier? (That is something I read about but never saw done).

Can you explain this a bit more - I'm curious but I've never heard of it and don't quite understand it or how it helps...

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For those who don't understand exactly why bundling is predatory (not in your best business interests):

if you have a portal with 5 positions for casinos and each is from a separate program, clearly each casino is "insulated" from the wins in each different casino.

if you allow a bundled program to have more than one position, you are essentially giving away the exposure to each additional brand because the "insulation" is lost. because bundling basically means you have one casino with two (or more) faces. but a winner in one of them effects your earnings in all of them (the no insulation part)

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AFFILIATE PROGRAMS watching: if you want honest, smart and long term affiliate partners... get rid of bundling.

 

[dominique]

Affcorner posted this at Gambling Affiliate Place:

Get about 5 - 10 of you together. Go to your favorite affiliate program, and ask that you package all be considered one group. Why ?

1. If tiered earnings, you all hit it faster
2. If someone hits a jackpot, does not hurt as much
3. A few heads better then one

Everyone still gets what they put into it, just a "buying group".

 

[WCD Admin]

I'm still a little fuzzy. What is being shared? Only the player winnings? and then the losses (affiliate earnings) are all separate? Do you also share the sub-affiliate earnings? so instead of one person getting the lions share, they all get the same sub-earnings.... it's interesting, but not sure its any solution to bundling.

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To me it's about one casino group with five casinos getting the exposure of five casinos but not necessarily paying for it by swiping your earnings with the losses of a different casino in a spot you were kind enough to give them (extra exposure)

 

[dominique]

I agree with your definition and I don't know the answer to your questions. Maybe affcorner will find his way here...

 

[Engineer]

I think the best course of action here would be to ask the program if they would consider allowing you to have multiple accounts. If you have a good working relationship with the program already, then they may be willing to work with you.

If they won't allow multiple accounts, then I wouldn't try to circumvent this; I would just promote one casino of the group.

If you are allowed to have multiple accounts, at that point the best thing to do (IMO) is to equally split your traffic among the accounts. If you don't do this -- i.e. if you use one account for Casino A, another for Casino B, another for Casino C, etc. -- then you could end up with one large account and the rest basically empty, if one casino converts far better than the others, or if you promote one a lot more than the others. Then, if you have a winner at your big account, you're wiped out anyway. So, don't split the accounts up by casino; that isn't the best way to go.

Instead, if you split the traffic equally among the accounts, you'll have better protection if one of the accounts gets hit with a winner. And when this happens, you can stop sending traffic to that one account for the rest of the month, or until the negative is erased.

 

[Engineer]

I think the best course of action here would be to ask the program if they would consider allowing you to have multiple accounts.

Actually, the best course of action would be what WCD Admin said above -- i.e. ask them to change the T&Cs and tell them about AGD. ;D

 

[affcorner]

I am here, thanks for the heads up Dom

Let me explain better what i meant from other forum

Personally I feel is in you best interest to have "critical mass". The more players you have, the more action, etc. True, you can have 50 very small players, and one whale come in an wipe you out. I know some worry about bundling, and I did also (For those who do not know, I was a "super affiliate" for 10 years before becoming an AM)

My post was in regards to if having too many players hurts your chances, and weather to have multiple accounts ok, and not really in regards to bundling.

Say Casino A has 50% at 50k in volume. By yourself you have 40k...Maybe you join forces with another affiliate who did about 40k

You decide to go to the program, and get a better "group deal". I did it, and it worked. Is best if you get these deals before you start to send traffic but most AM's work with you.

Now if I get a jackpot hit and may partner didn't , I am ok, but he gets hurt a bit and vice versa, BUT we been making an extra 10% for a while. AT the end of the year, I always came out way ahead.

Make sense?

 

[bonusgeek]

So basically your recommending joining forces with other affiliates, and by doing so your coming to the table with more clout, you can negotiate a better rate yet you and the other affiliates still remain separate entities right? It makes a lot of sense.

This brings me to another question, how much volume would justify a 45-50% revenue share? I have never really seen much talk about this and I have always wondered. To put it plainly, what if an affiliate or group of affiliates were driving lets say 200 conversions a month. Would anything less than 45% be out of line for the affiliate? Would 50 conversions a month justify the big bucks? It would just be nice to have a vague idea with this stuff so us small guys can have something to shoot for!!

 

[dominique]

Well, if it depended on a monthly # of players sent or converted, I would never get higher percentages. I get them based on the $ I generate for the casino. I don't know how most programs do this with most affiliates, I just know about myself and it has always been approved on the basis of the $ I generate. I am sure there are many affs who send a lot more players than I do, it's a matter of player value.

It's all negotiable though...

 

[TheGamblingGuru]

(For those who do not know, I was a "super affiliate" for 10 years before becoming an AM)

Can you please explain exactly what a "Super Affiliate" is?

I remember reading recently that Dom was also not familiar with exactly what this term represented or meant from the "professors" thread over at the Casinomeister forum. So I am sure that I am not the only one here who would like to have a better understanding of exactly what this term "Super Affiliate" relates to.

 

[dominique]

It doesn't make sense to me why anyone would want to become an AM after 10 years of making a lot of money...

 

[bb1webs]

I can't answer that either but can say Jack's been spot-on since i've known him. (kinda scary actually, if he doesn't screw something up soon I'm going to think he's computer-generated sent to infiltrate us by the evil 999.com bunch) and that's not the number 9 but rather a 6 so absent of moral fiber its body floated above its head.

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You can contact the programs and get seperate accounts but as they pointed out you risk cheating yourself the extra % if you climb that far. Personally that's a risk I'm willing to take and did with Brightshare but I've grown disillusioned of late because ALL the accounts dried up at same time across the board until only the original is still making money and thus the effort of protecting myself was in vain. I hope they turn it around but after 10 years of promoting them I had only 2 players active this month (last I checked). That is counting all accounts. And they weren't just a sideline group either. I have given them either equally best exposure or just slightly less than best most of the 10 years. What's more frustrating is that the other place I gave same top exposure (Rewards Affiliates) I am doing quite well at staying strong. Vegas Affs had less exposure and they have more players continuing to play.