Bonuses - Destroying Your Affiliate Earnings Too?

Sha

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Hi,

Casinos offer bonuses to lure players in. Good for them. In fact, these bonuses are just virtual money for them. As in they can supply it as they wish because bonuses come with unrealistic wagering requirements and they can lock the player in until they lose out all.

But, bonuses are really impacting my earnings.

For example,
I sent in a player. The gross revenue from the player is 130 euros.

But since the casino offered him an imaginary and no real value bonus of 136 euros.

They deduct the entire bonus from the gross revenue the player generated and left me with a negative $2 for sending a player to the casino and generating them a cool 130 euros!

Is it how casino affiliate programs work?

Bonuses are almost never ending.

For example,
The player deposits $500.
They can offer a 150% match up bonus. $750 bonus.

Though the real revenue i generated can be $500. The imaginary no value bonus will come into play now.

Leaving the net revenue to be negative $250.
Because, they take the deposit value and subtract it with the bonus offered. And even if the player loses the entire bonus, it is still considered as negative value.

So no matter what, if the player deposits $500.
Receives $750 as bonus.
And, if the player loses the deposit as well as the bonus. I will still be considered as producing a net negative $250 revenue for the casino. And at 25% commission, that would be about negative $62.50.

While in realistic manner, i had actually produced a positive $500 revenue. And at 25% commission, i should be getting a positive $125.

Are you able to see how bonuses can game and destory your rightful affiliate earnings as well?

Does it happen to you as well?

Please let me know.
 

CaseyM

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You can't have it both ways, if you had a high roller that left because the casino wasn't crediting them any VIP bonuses would you be happy then? I think bonuses are necessary and the WR on most are not unrealistic, they are perfectly reasonable
 

Sha

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This is the reply i got from an AM.

"Yes, the full bonus amount is deducted when calculating your commission, regardless if the player loses the bonus."

So, it means i will always be in negative?

Because bonuses are usual equaling deposits or more than deposits.
 

NDG

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Bonuses are a necessity in the online gaming industry in order to keep the players interested. But, there are
some online casinos where the bonuses take advantage of the affiliates, if the affiliates are focused primarily
on bringing in players via a bonus. For example, RTG casinos that use the RTG backend will subtract the
bonuses from the net gaming generated within your account. So, if you have a few depositors, and many free
players that take advantages of the bonuses, then those bonuses may eat up all of your earnings from depositing
players, even when the players that took advantage of the bonuses did not even deposit or withdraw anything.
 

AussieDave

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I agree bonuses are a necessary evil....

However I'm not quite sure I understand you point here Sha.
All this comes down to Double Entry Book Keeping...

All bonuses lost back to the casino SHOULD be deducted from GGR, not NGR.

(lets keep this simple, and not cost in admin fees etc):
  • Player deposits $130;
  • Casino gives player $136 bonus;
  • Player now has a total of $266;
  • Player loses the $266 back to the casino;
  • GGR = $266, subtract $136 (bonus)
  • NGR = $130
Stating your -$2.00, your commission should instead be 25% of $130 (NGR) = $32.50

That's without any fees deducted from GGR. Which will affect the above commission. But you should end up with around $20 in commission.

The ONLY time the above calulations are not valid, is if the player meets wagering and withdrawals. Then the bonus is treated as cash, along with whatever else that player won.

A quick example...
  • Player deposits $130;
  • Casino gives player $136 bonus;
  • Player has $266 total bankroll;
  • Player meets wagering and cashes out $500;
  • GGR = -$234
 
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KasinoKing

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Exactly what AssieDave said!

If a player deposits and gets ANY bonus at all, but then loses everything without making any withdrawal, then GGR = the deposit.
The bonus amount should NOT be removed from this figure!

Does it happen to you as well?
No!
Well... I bloody hope it doesn't :eek:

Please can you name the Affy program or Casino so that I can check my figures if I'm working with them - and completely avoid them if I'm not?

Thanks,
KK
 

Sha

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Exactly what AssieDave said!

If a player deposits and gets ANY bonus at all, but then loses everything without making any withdrawal, then GGR = the deposit.
The bonus amount should NOT be removed from this figure!


No!
Well... I bloody hope it doesn't :eek:

Please can you name the Affy program or Casino so that I can check my figures if I'm working with them - and completely avoid them if I'm not?

Thanks,
KK

Hi KK,

I too thought the calculation should be that way. However, the message from the AM stated this,

"Yes, the full bonus amount is deducted when calculating your commission, regardless if the player loses the bonus."

And, here is the screenshot of of the stats.

I was doing casino affiliate marketing back in 2008. Then moved to ecommerce. And, I am just back to casino affiliate marketing this year. But, seems like things/terms have changed. But, I am up for the challenge. However, if they are not gonna pay. Then, it isn't logical to hustle as well.

Is the above calculations right?
 

Sha

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I can't post the image.

Here is the stats,


Affiliate BetSpin
Impressions 0
Clicks 35
installs 0
Click-Through Ratio 0 %
Registrations 2
Registration Ratio 5.71 %
New Account Ratio 50 %
New Depositing Acc 1
New Accounts 1
First Deposit Count 1
Active Accounts 1
Active Days 10
New Acc Purchases €146.64
Depositing Accounts 1
Wagering Accounts 1
Average Active Days 10
Gross / Player €73.86
Net / Player €-48.98
Deposits €146.64
Bonus €-122.84
Chargebacks €0.00
Gross Revenue €73.86
Net Revenue €-48.98
Total Bets Hands 1768
stake €2,455.76
% Commission €-12.24
Referral Commission €0.00
Total Commission €-12.24
 

Biti

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I completely agree some programs have insane costs, but on the other hand, affiliates must understand that it's costing money to get players and to keep them playing. On the long run, most profitable is a casino that has a good retention and serious players. Players want to get something from time to time, otherwise, they won't be playing as they can grab their bonuses everywhere and serious players are welcome everywhere. People need to understand that bonus is a necessary evil thing to keep players playing.

But, deducting the complete bonus, is not fair at all. Bonus money is no money until it's cashed out. If it's cashed out, it's deducted anyway. So it should be way more fair to not deduct the bonus money, but the revenue that the casino to pay to NetEnt as a rev share for stakes made with bonus money. And the most fair is perhaps to share this costs with the affiliate.
 

AussieDave

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Stand alone MGS casinos, costs them somewhere in the ball-park of $20 in fees; that is over and above royalities paid to MGS, to give a $100 bonus - even if that bonus is lost back to the casino.
 

AussieDave

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affiliates must understand that it's costing money to get players and to keep them playing.

I've been a gaming affiliate since 2000.
Back then there were less players, and higher overheads because of that. We probably got hit with a few (undisclosed fees).

However, fast track 17 years on... There are a LOT of programs who expect affiliates to bare the cost of their entire business operations. So much so, we have affiliate's such as Sha, who ends up with a negative commission value, while the casino walks away with cash-in-their-pocket!

Some programs need to start living in the real world, maybe that goes for some affiliates too ;)
 

Biti

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True. It's not fair to vanish a complete revenue because of insane and unrealistic costs. Especially with programs powered by IA, big parts of your commission are disappearing because of all kind of costs.

I think programs should be transparent about costs. I hate things like admin fee or just costs. Why not charge realistic costs and name them? I do not consider affiliate and operator interests as exactly the same, but considering costs, it should be for everybody a good thing if people are transparent about it. Also for operators. There's a big competition going on, many brands trying to offer the best deals, but 40% at program X is not the same as 40% at program Y.
 

AussieDave

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Why not charge realistic costs and name them?

If every program was 100% transparent, they'd list each an every charge (value of) deducted from GGR, affecting affiliates true commission value. However, not doing so, gives them carte blanche to pluck figures (deductions) from the sky in some cases...

Point in question is Sha's Total Commission €-12.24.

Closer to home, I too have seen some very funky figures. Was promoting (since dropped) Affiliate Republik. Had my 1'st referred player deposit €175 (or around that figure) and received a bonus. Didn't meet wagering, and lost it back to the casino. I ended up with about €14 (or there abouts) commission.

With admin fees etc., etc... my 25% soon evaporated into lowly 8%. I subsequently kicked them to the curb.

I only promote a handful of programs these days, based on the knowledge my 25% or 30% is exactly that, and I'll be paid without hassle.
And, also knowing the players I refer, will be paid their winnings.

40% at program X is not the same as 40% at program Y.

40% should mean exactly that... 40%. But as you've pointed out, 40% could, and usually does mean, far less in real commission % earnings.

There's phrase for that, it's called "misleading advertising" or "false advertising". Meaning: not true; fake; bogus...
 

CygX1

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Usually the calculation is quite easy (and I have said this many times before): If a casino screws around their customers, their affiliate program will most likely do the same with their partners. These bonus deductions are quite popular at RTG casinos.

Nevertheless, this is an important issue at many other operators as well. It would be great if a system could be implemented in which programs using this deduction from NGR are highlighted.

This bonus deduction is only one out of many possible aspects to take money from an affiliate, but helps a lot to get a clearer picture of a particular program.
 

AussieDave

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As I've said many times before... Bonuses are just another means to screw affiliates out of their rightful commissions.
Ethical programs include the bonus in GGR and then deduct it from GGR (if a bonus has been lost back to the casino, then neither player or casino are negative or plus). Pity more programs didn't offer a wagering model of revenue (like RA). 1.3% wagering on slots. Would be no drama's with these bonuses and other crap we get thrown at us.
 

Frank

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I made a post about this a while back it's a pet hate of mine, monopoly money bonuses, Now i just stick with fair casinos if everyone else done the same programs would have to change the way they shake down affiliates
 

Shaun O'Neill

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Sha

The stats that you posted on Saturday look 100% correct to me, the bonus cost is bigger than his Gross win. Don't forget that if a player wins from the bonus and clears the wagering and then leaves the site the operator takes this cost 100%.

To me it makes sense that the full bonus cost s deducted from the Gross Revenue, the example that you posted also means that the operator has a loss on that player.
 

TheGooner

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To me it makes sense that the full bonus cost s deducted from the Gross Revenue, the example that you posted also means that the operator has a loss on that player.
It ALMOST makes sense.

Where it does NOT make sense is where a player seems to go inactive with a significant bonus balance left in their account that is untouched.

We have many places that have numerous players that quit / discontinue with significant positive balances - usually unknown bonuses.
I don't know why players do this - perhaps they are not aware of the bonus?

The net effect is that the account is eventually closed due to inactivity - the bonus forfeited - but for some reason that doesn't ever seem to flow back into affiliate reconcilliation ...
I guess because it's not a gaming activity.

So while I can understand your position - there are also many situations where bonuses with funny money DO devalue affiliate payouts - despite the sportsbook / casino making money from the player.
 

Guard Dog

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I know I'm late on this thread, but I'm trolling through all the posts right now. Here is the difference between "now and then". Most casinos now are not 'white labels' or single-software casinos. As such, when they offer bonuses - they actually PAY the money in. It isn't free money anymore like it used to be. That is the problem and why we are seeing this new way of calculating. I know it is hard to imagine because we are all used to the old way, but this is how it is done now. They pay that money to the platform to deposit (real money deposit), then that money is used with a wagering requirement.

It really sucks, IMO, but it isn't like the old RTG days when they used it purposefully to reduce commissions (my opinion, anyway)
 
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