WJ Issue

[lots0]

So stellos did you ever get that "software" problem with your accounting fixed?

Hummm, you'd think that when your accounting software says you owe someone over $500 and you say ou don't owe it, there is a problem.

My account still shows you owe me $500+ from like six or seven months ago, but you won't pay me because you say you don't owe me.

THATS A PROBLEM...


You can also expect a very large number of odd looking 'chargebacks' working with WJ.

[wagerjunction]

Hello Lotso


Back in December I explained to you how the balance in your account was made up and why it reflects what it does. Since you have raised this issue in a public forum I will respond in the same forum. You had earnings of $494.97 in September 2009, and since there was a CPA offer for all affiliates at that time you were also entitled to $20 extra (for bringing one new player). The total amount of $514.97 was paid to you via Wire (our minimum payment amount via Wire is $500). I explained to you that CPA is added manually by me, which meant the balance in the system ($494.97) was below the minimum amount ($500) and therefore the system setup did not allow us to clear this balance as ‘paid’.

In November you had earnings of $530.90, the majority of which ($525) came from a player who eventually charged back. This is something you wouldn’t accept, even though there is a Chargeback column in your stats and you can see the amount. I don’t think there is a single affiliate program who pays commission on charged back amounts, and this is what we did in this case as well. The $525 was removed from your account, and only the $5.90 was counted as real commission. Since we have moved Windows to Playtech you have sent us very little traffic as I suspect that most of your traffic us USa based and we unfortunately are not able to accept players from this country

You now have $500.87 in your balance, which is the sum of $494.97 (paid in September) and $5.90. This was explained to you previously and we went out of our way to make sure that you got funds that you were entitled to. As Playtech have built the system and it responds to different amounts for different payment methods it is sometimes quite difficult to clear amounts. Webmasters who promote a lot of Playtech products can confirm this with you I am sure.

I do agree that there must be a better way to do things and we have brought this up with Playtech and hopefully this issue will be cleared. We will take another look to see what can be done re the balance on the account. We have nothing to hide - you have had 2 chargebacks in the years that you have promoted Windows Casino on the Playtech platform and on each occasion you have sent us rude emails stating that we are thieves.

I think that you will find that when we took over the Windows Casino affiliate program in its RTG days we have transformed both the Casino and the Affiliate program into places that players can play at and partners can earn at. We have also in addition placed ourselves at your disposal and provided full explanations for everything that has happened on your account each time you have had queries. I am also quite happy for you to come to our offices to view the accounts in question or I can put these up as screenshots on this forum. I am happy for any London based webmaster who wants to come in to our offices to view these details to verify this for you if you want this done as well.

This statement of yours I regard as cheap shot and is something that webmasters did on forums many years ago for various reasons. I can quite understand the frustration of webmasters with particular affiliate programs but I do not think you can regards us in the same light as some of these programs.If you are not happy working with us then that is your choice to not promote us and not make use of the Windows flash games that you do use and to terminate your account. What we will not accept is the insinuation that we are cheating webmasters out of their earnings. We would like an apology if this statement was made in the heat of the moment.

I think that you will find that we tend to look after our marketing partners and you can confirm this by looking at our long association with both the GPWA and AGD whose seals we carry on the Wager Junction site.

Regards
Stelios

[lots0]

Wow somebody has got their shorts in wedge... and it's gonna cost them.

Hey bud why don't you re-read my post.

I said your friggen software did not work right and it was a problem... and it is.

I been working with windows casino for a very very very long time,
I think over ten years. But it ends today.

Your stuff is off my site... all except for the blacklisting,
that will go up in a few days, along with a full history of my ten year
association with windows casino. Should be interesting reading.

Two chargebacks out of three total players...
in ~2 years, that is a rather large amount of chargebacks don't you think?
I sure think so.

As far as the traffic, I cut you guys down to 3 or 4 clicks a day,
after the first bull shit charge back.
But that was a while before your time Stelios.

Your explanation of how the software says you owe me money and you say
you don't just never made sense to me.
But I wrote it off, because it was only $500 and the one thing you did make
very clear was that I was never going to see that money.

As far as the flash games,
I made a deal about 3 or 4 affiliate managers and two owners ago about
those games, but I guess you should not be held to that agreement,
so I have removed them.

In closing,
I would like to point out to all my Friends and fellow affiliates,
if you do business with Stelios expect to be treated like crap...
I think you can see that here.





Sorry for the big pics, I was hoping they would resize...

[tryme1]

In closing, I would like to point out to all my Friends and fellow affiliates, if you do business with Stelios expect to be treated like crap... I think you can see that here.

Quite the opposite, Lots0. It looks, at first inspection, that what Stelios is saying is very reasonable and makes perfect sense.

[lots0]

tryme it aint about the money.

Like I said I wrote that money off a long time ago.

added... tryme you had less than 3 minutes to read everything and go over the pics... gotta hand it to you... your fast.

[wagerjunction]

Lotso i think that having 2 chargebacks out of 3 over a couple of years says more about the kind of traffic that you are delivering rather than the treatment that you are getting from us at the affiliate program.

I know that you had a mail exchange with Greg who was the manager at the time after the first chargeback where you called the program cheats and liars in much the same vein that you are now.

I think we have been quite reasonable and forthright with yourself and if you are still not able to accept this then there is not much i can personally do about it.

I can not wait to look at the Blacklist page and see what the last 10 years have been like for you. What i can tell you is that since we took over the Windows Affiliate program - we have changed a number of things or Greg did initially. I am still in contact with him and can get him to confirm the below.

Affiliates actually got paid - a lot of them can testify to that
They also got paid the amount that was stated in the account ( yes apart from this glitch on the software that has been explained to you )
No admin fees or holding amounts were kept back
The Affiliate program doubled in size on RTG month on month until we were forced out of the United States

The men that you dealt with were shysters and cowboys and Windows Casino was blacklisted everywhere from Casinomeister to Winneronline and players were not exactly happy either . That is not the case now though.Please go and find a single player complaint re Windows now.
Go onto Casinomeister and see if it is blacklisted.

I personally love paying affiliates and this matter has been explained to you a few times now.

Finally the software is not ours - we use software supplied by Playtech , we have to set payment minimums and maximums - because you did not get to $500 in revshare alone which is the minimum for a wire we can not process it off the system.

You got to over $500 with the CPA that we were paying for new purchasing players. We wanted to make sure that you got funds That CPA was added manually so it does not appear on the affiliate system.

I think that you have taken a very cheap shot at us simply because you are angry that you have had chargebacks. It is not my fault that your players have charged back.

[lots0]

As far as the traffic, I cut you guys down to 3 or 4 clicks a day,
after the first bull shit charge back.

at 2 or 3 clicks a day... the traffic I was sending you I never expected to convert,
just part of the deal with the flash games... the fact it converted at all shows the very high quality of my traffic.

Answer me this...
Why the personal attacks on me and my business?
Is it that I am hitting a little close to home? That would be my guess.

I never once personally attacked you and I won't.
Your just a tool (and ya that can be taken two ways )

[lots0]

I know that you had a mail exchange with Greg who was the manager at the time after the first chargeback where you called the program cheats and liars in much the same vein that you are now.

Any program that changes their terms and conditions retroactively like wj did... are cheats.

I didn't make a big deal about when the program retroactively changed the T&C's on me. But I guess I should have.

You are aware, that the common opinion in the industry is that you owe me a lot more than just the $500,
because of retroactively changing the terms and conditions on carry overs.

[tryme1]

tryme you had less than 3 minutes to read everything and go over the pics... gotta hand it to you... your fast.

Thanks. It looks like 8 minutes to me between your posting and mine, but I'm pleased you appreciate I'm capable of understanding things in under 20 minutes.

I suspect there's bunches of history here, reading between the lines of what I can only describe as your anger, Lots0, about this program.

The thing is: everyone knows that back in the day Windows Casino were, shall we shall, dodgy and that King Solomons (and my memory may fail me here) went bust.

But your issue with the current affiliate program doesn't stand up to close scrutiny.

It seems to me that you were paid for the traffic sent and that you have no real issue here.

To my mind, WagerJunction have made great progress in turning around the reputation of these casinos.

[wagerjunction]

Lotso i think that you are making some very wild claims right now.

Any program that changes their terms and conditions retroactively like wj did... are cheats.

When exactly did the above happen ?

Answer me this...
Why the personal attacks on me and my business?
Is it that I am hitting a little close to home? That would be my guess.

We are not the ones making wild claims and are merely responding to your wild claims. Did you think we should sit back and swallow the inaccuracies that you are now spouting. The world has moved on from the days when webmasters could just go onto forums and accuse programs of things with no basis and thankfully so. I think that that agenda is on your end of the woods.

tryme1 there is no long history here. Lotso has delivered 3 players in a few years since we have been on Playtech and unfortunately 2 of those players have been fraudulent. After the first player charged back we got a few nasty emails from him and then again when the latest charge back happened. I think you can decide re the quality of traffic that is coming in.I can sympathise with his predicament but i will not simply sit back and allow him to call us cheats and thieves.

King Solomons Casino has never gone bust and has been operating continually for over 11 years. What we have done is taken what we thought was a decent brand and made it a safe place for players to play at .

Lotso I think that you will find that contrary to your claim , the community here and at every other place would support us and your claim that we owe you money can be refuted by simply showing what we have paid you in the past and comparing it to your screen shot is easily done.

I think we have been quite reasonable with you up until now and have explained at length what has transpired . I am at a loss as to the reason as to why you dont get it . Perhaps your tools are not as sharp as mine.

Regards
Stelios