VC Affiliates - Predatory Terms?

[GFPC]

Thanks Greek!!

We both been around long enough eh? - Had many discussions along the way about content thieves, scammer programs (leave that alone) and various other unsettling matters :-)

It goes with the job I guess. I am not to terrible upset as this account I had with them was mainly for poker - back when they had the 35 free. Being GFPC was our very first site it was a cool fit.

Of course some players cross over to Sports and Casino - which for me on some programs like Euro Partners did well.. They always paid me and i continue to work with them.

VC however just shut the door and i told them i was coming to tell people because in a sense I w ant them to come here and reply. I know they will!!

They will be here today probably giving their reasons for the Terms!! So in reality even though i lose on this player - WE ALL GAIN in this industry by learning new information about programs.

VC is not very active in the Affiliate community - so its a good time to open the door to them to come chat with us all. Hopefully they can change their terms and be more in line with friendly business practices.

Here is a previous email - it may help understand why i was so upset initially!!

Dear Steve
Thank you for your most recent e mails and the information you supplied, which was of assistance to me in looking into your complaint.

I have authorized payment to your Moneybookers account in respect of the 25% of £742.57, this being the only commission outstanding to you.

I have revised your site Get Free Poker Cash - No Deposit Poker Bonus - Online Poker Bonuses - Free Poker Money and see that you are not promoting us there.

Since you joined us in 2007 you have referred only one player who places sportsbook bets on a regular basis. All other players you bought to us have inactive accounts, which are either closed by security, or are players who invested very few wagers initially on joining us and no longer use the account. You have not referred any new active players to us in the past 7 months.

Taking the above into consideration and abiding by term 5.1 of our Terms and Conditions the head of our affiliates department has instructed me to close your account for not complying with Term 3.4 - Continued Promotion - of our Terms and Conditions.

For your interest you can read our Terms and Conditions on the following link:

VC Affiliates - Terms & Conditions


Well of course i have not sent more sports books players!! I was a poker site!!! LOL makes sense right?

But i still brought over a regular player to them who rakes every month!!!!

What i want to know is - WHY DID THEY NOT PAY ME FOR HIM for seven months in the first place?

And second - why not re consider and allow me to promote them on 7 other sites where we do send sports books players?

In regards to 7 months of no players!! Well how could I? They would not answer my emails!!

They stole this player period! I hope they come here and explain. And also understand it was their fault i removed them!!

Cant go months without talking to your affiliates!!

They will be here!! Watch - I will keep all posted if they do pay.

Bugs me though - I lose future revenue cause of their lack of communication!

[greek39]

I lose future revenue cause of their lack of commuication!

Also a lack of responsibility on their part. Failure to uphold and respect contractual agreements regarding future earnings. Well lets hope for the best.

greek39

[GFPC]

Also a lack of responsibility on their part. Failure to uphold and respect contractual agreements regarding future earnings. Well lets hope for the best.

greek39

Yeah true - it does state though in their term 3.4 in essence if you do not promote them they will close your account. No argument their. I wish i copied the original terms from them 3 years ago.

But - I suggested we work this out and transfer over to other sites!! Sports book and casino ect so i get to keep the player and bring them more. Of which they sent that cold reply.

The term is predatory there is no doubt! - But my argument is I could not promote them because i could not get my emails replied to or get help seven months ago. I have to look for all those emails.

Well anyways lets hope they do not make some excuse now why they cant pay me - ect ect. Some other line!! I need to get that article made :-)

In honestly I did like them - just the terms they have are not good.

What can you do!!! Well I will educate my players and affiliates on the forums and that is all I can do.

Steve

[Guard Dog]

Here are the terms and conditions from VC Affiliates circa October 2007

VC Affiliates Terms - October 2007

They have a minimum activity rule in the contract you signed up under, but since you have had a constant player - you do not fit this termination model:

26 We reserve the right to close the account of any Affiliate who becomes inactive (meaning that they make no contribution to Monthly Gross Revenue) for any period of 6 months or more.

So - they don't have a 'leg to stand on'. They terminated your contract based upon a change to the terms and conditions AFTER your contract signage.

This is called 'Breach of Contract'.

So - now I would like to hear VC Affiliates (Victor Affiliates) reason this one out.

[GFPC]

It is in times like this I truly see the value of being a member here. I always do feel this way but I now realize how important your services are Andy! I wish i signed up a long time ago - but I am here now.

Thank you so much Andy this is so very helpful - I am in your debt!

It is correct - since my player is generating rake and there was never a 6 month period of inactivity (in terms of gross rev) the term does not apply.

Nothing there stating a stop of promotion!! Thanks for that Guard Dog.

I would guess with the changes in affiliate systems last year - the assumptions from their end was to transfer everyone over to new terms.

But i was not made aware of this or signed anything in that regard. Like Terry said - no one would reply.

Yes I certainly would like to hear their take on this.

Much appreciated again!!

[GFPC]

I wanted to give a very short update before I head to dinner! The head of VC did contact me via email. He said he did post here and i see he joined. maybe he had a technical error with posting. As i gather from his email - he claims he posted a reply.

My account was reopened and apparently there was some technical error. The offer to come back was put on the table.

I replied - but first want to see him come here to explain his position and clear it all up for us all.

I think its important to invite him here to communicate together and come to mutual benefit for all.

If no reply comes in 24 hours - I will share the final outcome!

Steve

[Victors_Affiliates]

Dear All,

I am responding to this thread on behalf of Victor Chandler as Head of the affiliate program.

I can see that this has all spun out of control, starting with Steve's initial email.

I would like to start by saying up front, that we as a business recognise that the Victor Chandler Affiliate Program went through a difficult period through nearly six months, where it was under-manned and the affiliate program was handed over to an external source to manage in the meantime. We are aware of the lack of service the affiliate program provided in this time and the business has learned from these mistakes.

Towards the end of 2008 I started at Victor Chandler and we employed a new affiliate team with a wealth of knowledge within them. This team managed to pick up the pieces and in July 2009 launched the latest version of their affiliate provider’s software – our current affiliate platform.

In May 2009, we contacted our entire affiliate base to let them know that we were back in business and informed them of the new software and its advanced facilities. In the process of migrating we contacted all our inactive affiliates (meaning affiliates that have not referred a single customer in over 1 year) to encourage them to promote us again, and officially requested a reply to confirm that they would like to keep their accounts.

By the end of May many of our inactive affiliates were delighted with the news and confirmed their interest in promoting Victor Chandler once again.
Nevertheless, we sent out a further communication to those affiliates that hadn’t replied to us and once again implored them to reply to us and promote our brand once more. I would like you all to bear in mind that our channels of communication to our affiliates are typically restricted to just email, depending on the details the affiliate has registered. Saying this, some email addresses are often inactive and if the affiliate does not keep an eye on their registered email accounts, however active that email account may be, they will of course be unaware of our communications.

On June 15th a final reminder was sent out to our inactive affiliates and reminded them that they had one last week to confirm to us that they would like to keep their accounts. Those affiliates that did not reply to us by the 23rd June were not migrated onto the new system. In our anticipation of affiliates that would contact us after that date, we decided that any of the inactive affiliates on the old system that come back to us before October 2009 - could have a new account on the new platform, and we would retag their previously referred players to their new affiliate accounts. Some affiliates came back to us and so we retagged their players and credited their affiliate accounts with any outstanding commissions that were due.
By October 2009 we hadn’t had any inquiries from the remaining inactive affiliates for some time, and thus decided to finally draw the line. Since October we have only had two of the inactive affiliates come back to us and each time we have settled any outstanding commissions and kindly requested them to sign up a new account so that we can retag their players accordingly, in exchange for these affiliates promoting our brand once more.

On June 24th we contacted all our existing affiliates to inform them of the migration period. In this period we decommissioned the previous affiliate system and no affiliate applications were accepted for one week during the migration. Throughout this week, affiliates were able to see their financial and traffic reports correctly, but were unable to extract banners from the Banner Manager for technical reasons in preparation for the final stages of migration.

Throughout this migration, Steve’s account was incorrectly moved to CPA from Revenue Share due to a technical import error. As Steve hadn’t referred any players for some time, his reports were showing Revenue generated by his previous referrals - but no commission.

The affiliate coordinator dealing with his query informed me of the issues, but I immediately assumed he was one of our inactive affiliates from our previous software, who wouldn’t even have an existing account on our new platform. I advised her to settle any outstanding commissions, but our little miscommunication resulted in Steve’s account being closed.

I have now set to rectify the issue and I’ve approached Steve personally. His account has been reactivated and we have demonstrated our apologies for the confusion. As I have mentioned above, we prefer to encourage our affiliates to promote us and if Steve can trust in our program again and start referring players, we’d be more than happy to work with him again where he will enjoy his revenue from his existing players. To this date, there are no other commissions outstanding and we have him paid to date.

With regards to various comments on the nature of our T&C’s, these are standard and have always been in-line with the basic affiliate industry terms. The T&C’s are in place to protect us from normal day-to-day liabilities, but we do not adhere to these religiously and we now ensure that our relationship with our affiliates is, above all, our top priority. With this in mind, we deal with each case individually and our resolve is always in favour of our affiliate’s expectations.

I wish to point out, that although it may appear unfair, as with most types of business throughout the globe, we cannot be expected to continue paying our affiliates for old business if the affiliate has not actively promoted our brand or referred a single customer for a significant period of time. We have always referred to this option as plan B in worst case scenarios where our first advise to the affiliate is to re-engage our business relationship and to promote us once more. If the affiliate then decides to display our banners and refers players, we would of course welcome their custom.

The affiliate program is actually being well managed now and you will have all seen our ever growing presence both online and offline at affiliate conferences. Our affiliates receive various communications bi-weekly and enjoy a good service from the affiliate team who are always available on telephone and email.

We’ve made a great effort to get this program up and running again and I would not like our efforts to diminish our professional standard because of a genuine error which we may have mistakenly overlooked.

I’ll be keeping a close eye on this thread and hope to reply to your queries accordingly (please be gentle, I honestly want the best resolve here).

Feel free to email me directly and please find my contact details below.

kind regards.

Julian Dellipiani
Head of Affiliate Marketing

Chandler House, Leanse Place
1st Floor 50 Town Range, Gibraltar.
julian.dellipiani(at)vcint.com
Tel: (+44) 0870 800 6474
Mob: (+44) 07889995977

[GFPC]

That was long :-) - But thank you for coming in and sharing some information with AGD in the discussion Julian!!!!

Couple of things I wanted to express....

1. It was brought up here by me because when i asked Jean your AM if we could resolve this by me promoting you again he sent me another email indicating it was final - and that YOU made the decision as Head of Marketing.
Please review my posts above. I wanted to work this out. I also informed him/her that i would be sharing this with the affiliate community.

2. The terms pertaining to 3.4 are predatory. Even if you do not follow them religiously - it can be used to confiscate our earnings.

Let me put it this way - I send you 100 players (example) over the course of a few years lets say. I decide to sell my site and feel I can do well for some time on RESIDUAL INCOME. Based on your term - My affiliate account will be closed down - THIS COULD be a great lose for some affiliates.


Anyways rather then rehash it all - we know a few things now! I will say YES as of March 12th 2010 - I HAVE BEEN PAID to date. Meaning VC AFFILIATES did release funds to me up until that date for the active player.

Also thank you for sharing the mishap and the error that had happen. Things happen and it was corrected now I hope. I do not yet see my account switched over to the proper REV SHARE MODEL. But the account was reopened for negotiation. (Assuming you want to negotiate).

Am I on the old contract (previous terms) or on the new contract with those terms now?

In regards to term 3.4 - Will you be willing to alter that term to make it more affiliate friendly?

Basically - I would like to continue working with VC Affiliates and give you guy a chance but if the threat of losing LIFE TIME residual income from players is in your terms I cannot.

In the case - your unwilling to change those terms - what happens to my active player? If i decide to not continue with promoting VC AFFILIATES will you again decide to close my account under terms 3.4?

Will you actively become more involved in the affiliate community? And possible work with AGD to create more fair affiliate terms?

I see this as a golden opportunity to follow up on your last statement.

The affiliate program is actually being well managed now and you will have all seen our ever growing presence both online and offline at affiliate conferences. Our affiliates receive various communications bi-weekly and enjoy a good service from the affiliate team who are always available on telephone and email.

Considering this information you have given us - I see no reason why you cant seek AGD certification - that is if Andy decides its appropriate.

Steve

[Guard Dog]

We would love to begin working with VC Affiliates to certify their terms. If they contact me at the email address in the right sidebar, we can begin immediately.

[Pokerkeep]

Thanks Julian for coming in and addressing the member's concerns. You're post was well constructed and answered many of the questions raised. However, you did not address this particular post - which, I think, gets to the heart of the matter...

Here are the terms and conditions from VC Affiliates circa October 2007

VC Affiliates Terms - October 2007

They have a minimum activity rule in the contract you signed up under, but since you have had a constant player - you do not fit this termination model:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minimum Activity Rule
26 We reserve the right to close the account of any Affiliate who becomes inactive (meaning that they make no contribution to Monthly Gross Revenue) for any period of 6 months or more.

So - they don't have a 'leg to stand on'. They terminated your contract based upon a change to the terms and conditions AFTER your contract signage.

This is called 'Breach of Contract'.

So - now I would like to hear VC Affiliates (Victor Affiliates) reason this one out.