Rivalwide Progressive Issue - Rogue Poll.

[Guard Dog]

High-Level Summary: It has been noted that 400 affiliates are now charging affiliates for progressive play. This means that if your player wagers on a progressive jackpot, it will be deducted from your affiliate earnings. This is a retroactive change to the commissions calculation that affects all webmasters. Please read the full thread here for more information:

POLL: Would you want 400 affiliates rogued IF they allowed this commissions calculation change to become permanent?

This is a poll, but PLEASE read through this complete thread before making your decision. The mathematics are involved and it is imperative that you understand the calculations prior to making a decision.


RE: 400 Affiliates Earnings Calculations Change
Summary: This change was not sent out as notification to their affiliate partners and appears to be done in a very 'odd' manner (i.e., at the end of the month).

400 Affiliates are the ONLY program to do this (Rival program) and they implemented this without regards to their partners (consultation or otherwise)


Example of how this affects YOU

Assumption: 35% Revenue Sharing

Player 1: Deposits $5000. Takes no bonuses. Plays $0 in progressives. Loses all.
Affiliate Share: $1750

Player 2: Deposits $1000. Takes no bonuses. Plays progressives and wagers, in total: $75,000 (due to wins and losses). Loses all.
Affiliate Share: $350 – 2% ($75,000) = $350 - $1500 = $-1150

Player 3: Deposits $50. Takes no bonuses. Plays progressives and wagers, in total: $25,000. Loses all.
Affiliate Share: $17.5 – 2% ($25,000) = $17.5 - $500 = -$482.50

Affiliate End Revenue = $1750 - $1150 -$482.50 = $117.50

Affiliate Revenue Share Percentage = $117.50 / ($5000 + $1000 + $50) * 100 = $117.50 / $6050 * 100 = 1.9% Revshare



Now to the question / Poll:


Should we ROGUE 400 Affiliates?

[belgamo]

It would be nice to know if they ARE allowing players to play the progressives while on a bonus first. At all the rivals I play at you can not play progressives while on a bonus.

[bonustreak]

Are we positive 400 is the only Rival doing this?

[Herd]

Affiliate Revenue Share Percentage = $117.50 / ($5000 + $1000 + $50) * 100 = $117.50 / $6050 * 100 = 1.9% Revshare

So instead of getting
($5000 + $1000 + $50) x 40% = $2420

Earnings is : $117.50

Heres my question.. can rival or 400affiliates confirm.. is it 2% of $2420.. or 2% of all wagers lost on the progressive like in AGD's scenario?

[Engineer]

This is blatant shaving.

[Guard Dog]

Are we positive 400 is the only Rival doing this?

From what I've heard so far, yes. But that doesn't mean Rival isn't doing something behind the scenes that they do not know about yet.

It would surprise me, though, since there have been a lot of 'end of month' deductions at 400 and not elsewhere (from the information I've gathered so far from other affiliates and my own accounts)

[Herd]

I've been throwing this one from side to side in my head, and you know what... I'm not down for rouging 400affiliates, I'd rather have them see our view on things and see if they can change their policy. I would rather that, then to slam them and rogue them. It would achieve nothing.

I'm changing my vote to No

[Guard Dog]

I've been throwing this one from side to side in my head, and you know what... I'm not down for rouging 400affiliates, I'd rather have them see our view on things and see if they can change their policy. I would rather that, then to slam them and rogue them. It would achieve nothing.

I'm changing my vote to No

The idea here is to vote on whether this change (if permanent) should rogue them. I do not believe we should rogue them before they have a chance to reverse this. And, since we are having conversations with some AM's there, it could be a possibility.

So - this is more of a 'should we'... and 'if they make it permanent'.

sorry for the confusion!

[Steve S]

In the interest of fairness, it should be noted that this practice is not limited to 400. I know of two other Rival programs that also deduct contributions to progressive jackpot pools. So, I think if you are going to rougue 400, you may have to rougue some other Rival programs as well.

Both of these other Rival programs have offered to discontinue charging me for these contributions effective immediately. Both have also confirmed that there is a setting within their software that allows them to turn this deduction off. One of them did not believe me when I told him of this, but later found it could in fact be done.

Also, it should be noted that you are supposed to get credit for deductions to progressive jackpot pools when one of your players wins. But, only the contributions for that one player. Not for any other players who have played the progressives.

So, in your example, you may want to cut your deductions to the progressive jackpot pool by 1/2, since you would get credit back for wins. However, those wins were all played back and lost so 1/2 sounds about fair.

In that case you would have the following:

Affiliate End Revenue = $1750 - $550 -$241.25 = $958.75

Affiliate Revenue Share Percentage = $958.75 / ($5000 + $1000 + $50) * 100 = $958.75 / $6050 * 100 = 15.85% Revshare

Still not what you signed up for.

One of my problems with 400 is that it does not appear I have ever been given credit for player wins.

My bigger problem is with Rival. As I have mentioned before, since they had to pay people to program this scenario, there must have been some thought put into.

I told a friend of mine last night that I imagined a meeting that went something like this:

"Players like progressive jackpots. We need progressives."

"How are we going to fund it?"

A moment of silence - and then:

"I know! We'll get the affiliates to pay for it!"

At which point, just like in the Guiness Beer commercials, the rest of the attendees at the meeting stand up and shout "Brilliant!"

Seriously though, they must have considered the possible outcomes of this policy. They had to know that there is no way for the affiliate to break even on this and that affiliates would be negatively impacted. And, they did not think enough of us to let us know.

It should have been known that sooner or later that some affiliate was going to see their earnings negatively impacted enough that they would begin questioning things. They had to know that this would come to a head at some point.

[Steve S]

I am in the process of asking every program I promote if the deduct contributions to progressive jackpot pools or anything else that I am not aware of from my affiliate commissions.

So far the answers are:

Best Casino Partner: No
Mainstreet Affiliates: No