Industry is going to the Dogs!

[AussieDave]

Hi All,

What with mojo coming out and exposing her Playshare shaving(?) issue and now the unethical cross marketing in this thread:
Playshare Cross Promoting players?

Not to mention numerous affiliates (including myself) making claim to being had, the industry as we've know it is changing day by day. Aff programs I once considered trustworthy, I now hold grave doubts to their legitimacy in respect to my stats. I'm honestly running out of programs.

To make matters worse, I've realised a program that claims they don't bundle, does. Which in my case, spells lose of a good chunk of income spanning over a few years.

It seems most days I open AGD or GPWA to find yet another case of an affiliate busting a program for shafting them & or others. Although I believe in some degree a % of shaving has always taken part at majority of programs in the industry from day one.

In essence, we've all been able to offset these loses because we've been making decent income. Living fat from the pig and having a decent lifestyle to boot. I've never really concerned myself with a few players not being tagged or what not.

However, those few players being shaved each month IMO have turned into multiple players not being tagged. Run that across the board of casinos promoted and it starts to heavily impact your monthly income - least that's what I'm seeing now.

Reiterating a few here and there didn't concern me before because I was making a decent income. But now, although my traffic is up I watch as my income gets eroded month by month. I know I'm getting shafted but apart from blowing the whistle and making a HUGE issue about me being scammed and my rightful income stolen, what else can I do...

I've decided to take the suggested lead from GFPC and consider only doing media buys. Granted not all my sites are suitable - most don't bring the kind of traffic required to gain media buys. However a couple do.

Personally I'd rather know I'm making X amount guaranteed each month, paid in advance, than to lay in bed each night tossing and turning wondering what affiliate program is shafting me today!



Cheers



Dave

[6digits]

I agree with you.

At least you know what you are earning. I must point out that I have been dealing with AffEurope for almost a year now, and its the only brand that I am working on a rev-share basis. They also include s-tracking so cross selling is a not an issue and their reports are fantastic as well. I suggest that you speak to Nir Katshall at AffEurope.

But as for the others, paid media is the way to go.

Regards

Dwaine

[Adrian-LiveCasinoPartners]

Here's my theories of why and how this is a growing trend.

(1) Maybe it's not a growing trend. Maybe the turnover of reliable programs has always been like this. I would love to hear the comments of a true vet in the industry. What have the "turnover" rates been? Is this a growing phenomenon?

(2) Non-sustainability: When starting LCP I've felt an enormous pressure to offer what's not economically viable. Put it this way, ANY brand using the same software platforms who offer more are only sustainable with accelerated growth. What happens when you reach market saturation or your tapering on the growth curve?

Many programs have decided to be super aggressive by offering non sustainable commissions that were possible until the growth is stifled or the dynamics of the industry change. I'm not certain. I haven't seen any proof of real numbers, but that's what I think.

(3) Change in affiliate roles in the gaming industry? I know we depend greatly on affiliates, but I can see how some programs feel they don't need them. We need affiliates to keep up with the market growth. What about those programs who've been around so long that the word of mouth and media advertising is the dominant revenue source? Is it possible that the affiliates have created the monsters? I've felt the need to promote programs I don't believe in just because they were the only means of converting my specific traffic. I promoted them and received some revenue, but in the back of my mind I knew I was being used. Today, that program (one in mind) won't even let me log in to see my stats! Let alone get paid. I've sent them 100's if not thousands of players and they simply don't respond to my emails. I do feel sense of communal responsibility every time I see an affiliate promoting them. I even send PM's to warn them of the program and share my experience at the risk of sounding like I'm trying to sell them something (ie. join our program).

I feel that affiliates are a critical part of any brand. Both the affiliates and the brands have to be reasonable in what they expect the other to do. A balance has to be met in order for both to be successful. I've got lot sof respect for those programs who have found that balance and are the standard of the industry. (RewardsAffiliates and brightshare to name a few)

[lots0]

Here's my theories of why and how this is a growing trend.

(1) Maybe it's not a growing trend. Maybe the turnover of reliable programs has always been like this. I would love to hear the comments of a true vet in the industry. What have the "turnover" rates been? Is this a growing phenomenon?

I don't know about being a 'true' vet, but I been doing this for a decade or so now.

In my experience it is not the affiliate program, it is the people behind it.
If the people running the show are honest, you get honest programs and vice versa for crooks running things.

The turnover happens all the time, every time a program is bought or sold or management is changed (for whatever reason).

I've seen it happen more times than I can count. That a good program will go 'bad' or a 'bad' program try to change, simply because of ownership or management changes. (Thats why I get a big laugh at programs like grand privy... that claims they have changed... but the people running it are the same crooks as before...)

This business is all about people and trust between people, always has been and always will be... but when we sit behind a keyboard all day, sometimes we forget that.

You can't trust a program... But you can trust(or not) the person running it.

My 2 cents

@Dave, sometimes we find the biggest opportunities in adversity.

[Adrian-LiveCasinoPartners]

Thanks for the insight Lots0

I don't know about being a 'true' vet, but I been doing this for a decade or so now.

Yes, that makes you a "true" vet. lol

In my experience it is not the affiliate program, it is the people behind it.

Yes, I couldn't agree more. It's not enough that the affiliate manager is trustworthy. I've found that they are not the ones who are making the decisions that affect affiliates the most. The people behind the programs have to be trustworthy. I think it takes time.

Ironically, the people who have earned my trust through out the years I hardly know. They always pay on time and there's never a need for communication. lol

[AussieDave]

Hi Adrian, (All),

You always put forward thought provoking ideas and comments. Substance, I like that.

I believe to get a handle or at least an understanding of what we're seeing now, we need to go back (take a walk down memory lane) to the early days in the industry.

Bare in mind not too many, if any, casino owners back then would openly admit to owning a casino. 14 years on not much has changed. Secrecy has been the foundation of this industries DNA from day one.

For argument sake, lets ball park that circa 1996.

• Affiliate programs didn't exist.
• There was only a few casinos in operation.
• Interactive Gaming Council - like eCOGRA it too (IGC) was funded by Microgaming.
• Casinomeister, Got2Bet, GoneGambling none of these were around.
• Play though on a bonus was 1x.
• The internet was still relatively considered a fad.

To place that into some perspective, Google wasn't around. It commence in 1998. SE's such as HotBot, Altavista, Netscape and others (which slip my mind now) were popular back then.

Your choice of browsers consisted of IE or Netscape. Netscape was to IE as FireFox is to IE today. Most people were using a 28.8K modem. Ask people what Flash was and I'm guessing you get told "Flash Gordon".

Not too many saw or realised the potential of this medium. Countries didn't see it as a threat to security or their economy - people could pretty much do what they wanted online.

Back in 96 I was paying $5AUD an hour to my ISP. However as technology matures it becomes cheaper. Hence more people have access.

---------

Time Line 2001

• Affiliate programs were in operation.
• CasinoMeister (Bryan), GoneGambling (John), Got2Bet (Ted) were established.
• There were over a 1000 casinos online.
• Online Players Association commence in 2000 (want to know what that was, Google it)

Back then players were being shafted. Winners not paid - Ma & Pa casinos doing midnight flits was a common occurrence. Even jetsetcasino (Tropika Group - MGS powered) that too was blacklisted at the IGC and numerous other portals at the time for ironically not paying its players.

I could write a book on all the dodgy goings on within this industry, which IMO has ownership to why things are so screwed up now. But I'll leave writing that to my site dodgy online casino history.

---------
Time Line 2010
From a players perspective, since the UIGEA fell into the lap of the industry pay-outs have got worse and worse. Being a bonus slots player MGS software is pathetic these days. RTP is generally tight - $100 that once gave a decent run; at least a chance, now more times than not gets sucked with little or no return. The same is seen at RTG and other gaming platforms too.

Less people (due to Country bans) and new slots being released on a regular basis, equates to less money per slot machine being dropped. This scenario exasperates the crap play time. Turning what was once an enjoyable pastime with a real chance of bagging a decent win, into deriving greater entertainment in players flushing their cash down a toilet and watching it spin around the S bend!

Closing Thoughts

Without players there is no industry.

Putting everything into perspective - JMO but the industry is its own worst enemy. The inherent secrecy that has generally been synonymous with online gaming, added to less players and more casinos/gaming venues, eventually something has to crack.

Unfortunately it's the affiliates who IMHO are again wearing the mistakes of this industry and being royally shafted for it!


Cheers



Dave

[arkyt]

Although I believe in some degree a % of shaving has always taken part at majority of programs in the industry from day one.

We've all had our suspicions and now that times are tougher world wide, its truly turning into the wild west ... IMO we havent seen anything yet. Its going to get a whole lot uglier!

In essence, we've all been able to offset these loses because we've been making decent income. Living fat from the pig and having a decent lifestyle to boot. I've never really concerned myself with a few players not being tagged or what not.

However, those few players being shaved each month IMO have turned into multiple players not being tagged. Run that across the board of casinos promoted and it starts to heavily impact your monthly income - least that's what I'm seeing now.

2002-2006 I was making (EDIT) every month like clock work; when they tagged that crap on the the port act I seen a drop of about 37% - within months. During 2006-2008 I stayed right there; still doing very well, nothing to really complain too heavily about considering the law. Then in 2008 I seen another 43% drop - uh what the heck is going on? Then this year I have seen another drop of about 40% + ... Now seemingly over night (its not really been over night) I'm living month to month - paycheck to paycheck...(Losing my rear in the stock markets in 2008 sure didnt help much either)

What boggles me is the programs are all still eager to rush off to parties - the GPWAs / CAPs etc both making a killing off the programs are all still eager join in; as are many of the "conference regulars" ... How they can continue to do that, while I, despite still having good SE rankings, am working on going broke. Something more is going on - thats for damn sure!

I have zero doubt VA bent me over 6 ways - I'm starting to feel like my other partners have been doing the same.

[AussieDave]

its truly turning into the wild west

You may not know it but that's a truly profound statement.

The online gaming industry was founded on a "Wild West" mentality. From where I'm sitting it's done a full circle.


Cheers



Dave

[AussieDave]

What boggles me is the programs are all still eager to rush off to parties - the GPWAs / CAPs etc both making a killing off the programs are all still eager join in; as are many of the "conference regulars" ... How they can continue to do that, while I, despite still having good SE rankings, am working on going broke. Something more is going on - thats for damn sure!

Well your shaved income, my shaved income and everyone's else's funds these "parties", trips and what not...

I have zero doubt VA bent me over 6 ways - I'm starting to feel like my other partners have been doing the same.

Partners, sorry but we're nothing more than meal tickets to most programs.


Cheers



Dave

[inspiration]

Personally I'd rather know I'm making X amount guaranteed each month, paid in advance, than to lay in bed each night tossing and turning wondering what affiliate program is shafting me today!

That's where the trouble starts as you are no longer considered to be a partner AND the program has to get the MAX of this prepayment they NEED to cross promote players, it is like turning CPA in CPMonth IMO. In the long run you lose out because they are not stupid to offer you these deals. The hazard is that programs do not care much about offering good tracking facilities for others or offering an affiliate program at all.