Grand Prive and eCogra - AGD Perspective

[Guard Dog]

Several days ago eCogra put out a marketing campaign which put them at the forefront of the Grand Prive debaucle. For those who are unaware, it is well-documented and easily found in the search engines. For the sake of brevity: Grand Prive closed down operations and left many affiliates uncompensated for their player base. Affiliate commissions were not paid and they opened another affiliate program for a non-US facing casino, Villa Fortuna. With a large player base from the Grand Prive group, they were able to regain 100% profits from their players (and cut affiliates from their contractually-earned share of the commissions).


In recent weeks, AGD (in partnership with CAP-Warren) began looking into a completely independent audit of the Grand Prive system. AGD wanted to become involved to ensure that the audit would be truly ‘independent’ and without bias. Grand Prive was involved in the conversations with Warren and progress was being made. The audit was to be done with an independent auditor (such as Price Waterhouse or similar) and would be overseen by AGD and with Warren’s involvement. We had briefly discussed eCogra as the auditor and determined that their involvement would have put a cloud around the audit {unless AGD/CAP had complete raw data access for the purposes of verification of eCogra findings}. The auditor of choice was being looked into until last week when eCogra sidestepped AGD/CAP with their announcement.


We had already discussed a proper investigative method and audit procedure prior to this announcement. Our plan would have included contacting all Grand Prive affiliates (not just those who submitted a claimant form) in the same manner that a class action lawsuit informs all affected persons. The initial investigation would have been an affiliate audit to determine which persons to contact. Subsequent to the affiliate audit would have been a detailed player audit with affiliate-tag verification and match-up. Upon completion, a compensation/commission audit could be performed. This portion of the audit was to be a 2-part audit: Historic Commissions Audit and Cross-Promotional Audit of tagged players. [This is a rough outline of our plans. Feel free, eCogra, to use this methodology or contact us for a more detailed plan.]


This is the plan we had worked on while waiting for the go ahead from GP.
With all that said, we applaud eCogra’s efforts in taking on such a monumental task. We certainly hope their plans are as detailed as our own and that their success benefits the affiliates that should have been compensated. This should extend to all Grand Prive affiliates, not just those who happen upon the ‘Claim Form’ (located at: Submission Form) and [contrary to the claim form] affiliates should not be responsible for determining the legitimacy of their request. The Grand Prive backend has been down for quite some time and verification is just not possible.


Good luck eCogra and please do affiliates the same justice that would have been accomplished with our plan…


Thank you everyone and good luck to all Grand Prive Affiliates!

[TheGamblingGuru]

The auditor of choice was being looked into until last week when eCogra sidestepped AGD/CAP with their announcement.

That sounds to me like Microgaming had their hands all over that one and would not let a third party such as AGD/Cap get involved in backend details where they could not have any control over the outcome as they could with eCOGRA doing it.

I imagine in such circumstances as this one here that it does pay off eventually to be one of the founding sponsors of eCOGRA such as Microgaming is.
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[dominique]

The main issue with how this s being handled is that there is no mail informing ALL GP affiliates that there is a process taking place and exactly what it is.

Only a small percentage visits message boards...

[TheGamblingGuru]

The main issue with how this s being handled is that there is no mail informing ALL GP affiliates that there is a process taking place and exactly what it is.

Only a small percentage visits message boards...

Yep, I totally agree with you Dom. If this is to ever really look as though it is legit then there should not be such a short time constraint applied on when the affiliates need to get the forms in for one thing.

The other and probably most valid point is that since eCOGRA is handling this then they should in fact be the ones to make a formal announcement through means of email, snail mail or any of the other formal channels that a case such as this would normally go through.
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[Daera]

I had no idea talks were taking place about an audit.

I was really disappointed when I seen eCOGRA's involvement a day late and a dollar short. Then just disgusted to read it from Grand Prive. But now, to know that we almost got a legitimate audit.... until Grand Prive side-stepped the discussion and went on to eCOGRA themselves. What a bunch of clowns.

Thank you for your efforts Andy. It's just too bad they didn't keep talking to you guys. They would have had a lot better chance of cleaning up their reputation if they had gone with you guys and not eCOGRA.

[bonustreak]

It's not too late they can still make things right by getting in touch with Andy and having this all done with legitimacy. It is clear that both eCogra and GP read the forums so I hope they are hearing our plea!

[Daera]

It's not too late they can still make things right by getting in touch with Andy and having this all done with legitimacy. It is clear that both eCogra and GP read the forums so I hope they are hearing our plea!

True, not too late yet. And certainly the smarter way to go.

[tryme1]

Very interesting. I wonder how qualified 'ECogra' is to audit anything at all. The auditors for ECogra itself are KPMG - like PWC, a 'big 4 accountancy' firm. Call me cynical, but I would strongly doubt that ECogra would engage KPMG to undertake this work for the Grand Prive thing.

When we are talking about audits here, we're talking about a very high level of accountancy work - and this is far from cheap. Especially if you are using a big 4 accountancy company.

I don't know where AGD and CAP are with their own plans for this kind of stuff, but if they'd like to PM me, I'd be happy to put them in touch with some genuinely independent auditors.

[triple777s]

For me, i am sorry to say but i believe they are just blowing candy up our asses.

I mean, isn't "Grand Prive" the ones who are requesting Ecogra to implement this "so called" audit? What a joke that is, why would we agree to any type of outcome from an audit that the "Accused" has commissioned?

[Guard Dog]

I would rather not completely give up on this idea. eCogra may not be the most independent choice for an auditing firm, but they are capable of creating a proper audit.

I believe that if they take a step back and approach this in a manner in which all affiliates of Grand Prive are contacted, pro-actively, then this can be a VERY good thing.

They do not need AGD or anyone else to make this a viable solution. They only need to have a transparent plan in place so that we may all be informed as to how they plan to implement the audit.

Tryme - I appreciate the information and will certainly take you up on your offer if the situation presents itself.


Everyone - let's try to not make this an eCogra-bashing thread... I did not intend for it to become that. I only wanted to bring our plan into the 'light of day' so that eCogra and GP could learn off of it and implement a good investigative procedure and audit.

Andy