Verified game errors at Playtech, Dragonfish (888) and Rival

[ThePOGG]

Afternoon all,

I just wanted to quickly bring a couple of articles I've just posted to everyone's attention.

Firstly we have the somewhat good - an issue with Playtech Video Poker game Pick 'Em Poker that has been corrected;

http://thepogg.com/playtech-pick-em-poker-game-error/

Then we have the not-so-good and bad - mispays on both the Dragonfish (888 group) and Rival Baccarat games that received no response (Dragonfish) and dismissal (Rival);

http://thepogg.com/dragonfish-888-and-rival-baccarat-mispays/

Both of the above issues, whether they were managed properly or not, demonstrate weakness in the game testing side of the industry. If games were being properly tested these sorts of things wouldn't happen. While I don't think this failing is in anyway unique to these software providers, the differing attitudes when we tried to contact them - Playtech = prompt response, Dragonfish = no response, Rival = pretend there isn't a problem - for me says a lot about the providers.

ThePOGG

 

[bonustreak]

Wow thanks for bringing this to our attention!!! Not shocked at Rivals response..

 

[AussieDave]

Not shocked at Rivals response..

Only have to look at the little to no response from Rival regarding Tradition Casino and their dodgy Blackjack paying 1:1, to see they don't give a fly rats about compliance nor game audits. Speaking of... When a NEW Rival game is realeased, is the RNG scrutinised as being suitable for intended game? And is both the RNG and game audited together.

Are these audits conducted by a industry accepted 3'rd party auditing firm?

rivalpowered.com/about.php
Here at Rival we are committed to meeting the high standards that today's gaming industry sets and expects in the areas of customer service, fair play

I've trawled the entire Rival site and can not find any mention about audits

This Is Vagas - A casino owned by Rival per se... no mention of who audits the games or the RNG's. Are they doing it themselves...lol

 

[AussieDave]

I've just added a blog post about this, specifically about Rival. They're a pet dislike of mine
Have provided you a link back to your article Pogg.

http://www.dodgyonlinecasinohistory.net/rival-powered/are-rival-casino-games-audited/

 

[ThePOGG]

I don't think many people will be surprised with the response from Rival. Their entire business model seems to be based on doing as little as possible. It's taken them from what could have been a top of the market competitor to to a group that most credible authorities within the industry see as dangerous to be associated with.

And while it's a game error while everyone was ignorant of the issue, what does it become when your games aren't functioning right and you know they're not functioning right?

That said I wouldn't be too quick to single Rival out here. Does anyone want to take a guess how long the Dragonfish Baccarat game's been operating in this fashion? I'd bet that far more players have been affected by their games and this is a VERY long time not to have noticed.

These were game errors imo and low level ones. There may be more significant issues in the future where really pushing can do more good. However, I know if I made a mistake and people were inconvenienced or disadvantaged by it, I would be looking to set things right and so far I've not heard anyone talking about doing that.

TP

P.S. Thanks for the post B4Y - you made some very good points there!

 

[AussieDave]

I know if I made a mistake and people were inconvenienced or disadvantaged by it, I would be looking to set things right and so far I've not heard anyone talking about doing that.

And that's the BIG issue mate.
More often than not, the spin doctor mentality is used and the semantics start, in attempts to shift/avoid accountability.

A prime example would be the letter you wrote to the GRA Commissioner, Re - the Finsoft & Spielo Real Deal game.
The reply to those issues (again concerning advertised payout odds), where at best woefully inapt.

In most cases it seems to me, until the head of the snake gets with the businesss of actually enforcing accountibility, the tail will continue to do as it pleases.

EDIT:
Found this dating back to 2010. A CM member asked if Rival software is audited.
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39033

CM responded giving the reply:

The Random Number Generator is certified by Certainkey.com That's it as far as I know.

Certainkey.com - hmmm looks like a service which encrypts files, email etc. Not a bona fide casino game or RNG auditor that's for sure.

 

[bonustreak]

It's taken them from what could have been a top of the market competitor to to a group that most credible authorities within the industry see as dangerous to be associated with.

YES!

 

[ThePOGG]

Here's some interesting information regarding CertainKey.com;

http://spyonweb.com/certainkey.com

Looking at the info on the above page (I have taken a copy of all of this) CertainKey.com shared a Google Analytics code with RivalPowered.com/.net as recently as 31/07/2013 (mouse over the entry and it shows you when they last had that GA code).

They still share a GA code with Pantasia, Malibu Club and Mayan Fortune.

It's not possible to say with complete certainty, but it is very suspect that the testing lab are sharing an account to track the traffic on their site with 3 casinos run by the software provider, at least one of which has always been widely viewed to be Rival owned. This is obviously just opinion, but it looks to me as if Rival are doing their own game testing.....

 

[AussieDave]

This is obviously just opinion, but it looks to me as if Rival are doing their own game testing.....

Well I've pretty much held that opinion about Rival ever since they burst into the industy back in 2005/2006.
When I held a CM account and Rival were noobs, I asked Rival-Rob (the Rival Rep at CM) about auditing, never got a reply.

I've also posed the question to a casino owner of a stand-alone Rival casino; someone I'd know for over 8 years. Never got a reply to that either.

My guess is Rival do their own testing & clearly make up their own rules etc.

As a passing thought... If it's proved that Rival RNG's and Games are not audited/certified by a 3'rd party industry recognised auditing firm, instead are effectively in cahoots/association with the auditor(s), then that's a pretty big issue right there!

 

[KasinoKing]

I don't think many people will be surprised with the response from Rival. Their entire business model seems to be based on doing as little as possible. It's taken them from what could have been a top of the market competitor to to a group that most credible authorities within the industry see as dangerous to be associated with.

100% spot on!
When they started out they had the potential to be a market leader - like another MG or NetEnt. But bad business decisions lead them down another path, which is a tragedy really...

As far as the games go - I played a HELL of a lot on their software and personally I was totally happy that they are fair & honest games. As an affiliate, I have also seen several players take casinos to the cleaners, which indicates there was no dodgy stuff going on. I still trust them now, and would still deposit and play with my own money... if the bastards hadn't decided to block all UK players

KK

 

[AussieDave]

As far as the games go - I played a HELL of a lot on their software and personally I was totally happy that they are fair & honest games. As an affiliate, I have also seen several players take casinos to the cleaners, which indicates there was no dodgy stuff going on.

KK you know I respect you as peer, right?
Thing is though with regard to Rival if they are doing their own RNG and game audits, it's a confilict of interest.

While we've both won on Rival slots, so too have other players. That in itself doesn't mean the games are truly fair/random etc... just sayin!

 

[Tropica / Cash o' lot]

Hi there everyone,

Max over at Meister, posted a reply from Rival related to this matter. Rival asked me to post the same here:

Baccarat issue:

"The Baccarat 'issue' will be resolved, The graphic on the table will be updated to show 'for' instead of 'to' as in ' 9 for 1.' It's been put into the queue and will be updated as soon as possible."

RNG Auditing

"As for game testing, all slot games have been tested and certified by SQS in order to meet Isle of Man gaming license requirements. There are business reasons why this isn't published on the RP site. I can introduce you to our representative at SQS who can confirm to you directly that the games have been tested and certified, if need be.

As for 'Certainkey', it was a company that helped design and test the RNG for the slot games. (emphasis on RNG, so not the same as 'full game testing' that would encompass the accuracy of game graphics etc). Upon development in 2004, the RNG for the slot games was built via the Fortuna Implementation (or Fortuna Computationally Secure Randome Number Generator CSRNG). The test for the RNG was designed by CertainKey and was " deemed sufficient in meeting the principle design goals defined by Ferguson and Schneier in their original treatment of the algorithm." " No anomalies were found". At the same time the RNG was tested using the United States National Institute for Standards in Technology Statistical Test Suite Verification which provides a randomness test tool. Again, no anomalies were detected. Since then, the RNG has never been altered, replaced or changed in anyway."

If this has been posted on other forums, can you please let me / Rival know where or alternatively, post Rival's explanation accordingly to alleviate any concerns?

Thank you to ThePogg for raising these issues and thank you to Rival for addressing them so quickly.

Regards,
Dieter

 

[fenixs]

I have also stumbled upon on somewhat similar difficulties while adding free play games from NetEnt on http://netentnodeposit.net/. Although all the new games work like a charm, the older had some compatibility issues with either hardware or web connectivity. The next day would see them gone completely from the distributor site, as they have already been canceled for some time, yet without a prior notification.

 

[DeltaMedia]

Yigal Markens is the professional crook of Dragonfish and if you want to talk with him then please beware of your wallet and pocket change.