I am having a problem with Winneraffiliates. I am having players there who are constant depositors for 4 years. This month they didn't pay the 519$ comission that my players generated. I wrote a letter to them a week ago, they told me they will look into the problem, but no reply came. Instead, another person (Avi Selmanovich), different from who promised to look into my case wrote me a letter saying I should make a new deal with them. And started asking about how many players I can bring for a new promo. Well, I asked this person to look into my payment problem, too, but I only got letters about making a new promo, no news about what will happen to my payment, now finally, after several letters insisting on having somebody look into my case, that person writes this: "You will be paid on next month batch, around 10.5.14." Well, I am not really happy to hear this, because accoarding to the terms they should have paid by the 15th of the month, and I was expecting this money. Moreover this month I am in negative. I think they want to manipulate with that they will deduce this negative from the payment they owe me, what is cheating, because the money that reaches the payment limit and is meant to be paid should have nothing to do with the balances of the forthcoming months. And if I am in negative this month, there is no next month batch, because there is no payment after a paid blance followed by a negative balance next month. What is just making the case more ridiculous that next moth is not .05, but .06. This clearly shows that Avi might have not even given a damn to what's up with my case. I wonder how they expect that after this I will make a new promo for them. Anyway I had no problem with this group until 2014. I had a successful campaign with them in 2010, back then I referred players who are still making money, and they made several thousands, so there was cash. There are months when the balance goes negative, but then it goes back to positive again, and I am constantly earning. A similar non-payment happened earlier this year, back then I got the cash after a hassle at the end of the month, now it is the second time, but it is quite frustrating now. They clearly don't give a damn to pay in time...
Non-payment problems with Winneraffiliates
- Thread starter Tupee
- Start date
tryme1
Affiliate Guard Dog Member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2009
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- 681
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There are endless complaints from both players and affiliates about Winner. The only Winner, it seems, is them. Be patient, get your money, then drop them. Why work with companies that do this kind of thing. There's plenty of other options.
This is a classic cpays tactic. They used to do this all the time - i.e. rip of an affiliate then try to bullshit and sweet talk the affiliate into opening a new account. cpays was a crooked affiliate program run out of Israel that was associated with a bunch of rogue Playtech casinos like Joyland and 32 Vegas (renamed now to 21 Nova). William Hill bought them all then foolishly contracted out the running and affiliate management of the casinos to those same crooks. That lasted until William Hill found that they were being ripped off by their own employees and supposedly got rid of the criminals and brought everything back in house.
Guess where the cpays criminals ended up going next...
footballaffiliate
Affiliate Guard Dog Member
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2013
- Messages
- 404
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Seems to be the same story at a lot of Israel based sports affiliate programs. William Hill (now including Sportingbet Australia, Centrebet and others), Winner, Europartners, Ladbrokes, 888, iAffiliates, and any Playtech casinos - here's what they do:
1. Spam and harass you to sign up with them. You sign up, they seem to spam you even more not knowing you're already signed up.
2. You refer them a load of clicks, you get a good number of registrations, but conversion is strangely low when compared to performing bookmakers. They spin you some excuses.
3. After complaining about low earnings, you magically start earning money!, but you then get shaved through a number of methods - detagging of valuable players, shaving of revenue, strange methods of calculating net revenue that skims your earnings, or my favourite - tagging your account with a real winning player from elsewhere. They'll also cross promote to your referrals and sell player details to other casino/sports brands, so all of a sudden the 1 player you referred to 1 company is sold 10 other accounts you don't get paid for.
4. You sometimes see great earnings up to about the 24th of each month - spurring you on to promote them even harder. You then regularly see a massive (and very regular!) skim towards the end of the month, taking your revenues almost, conveniently, back to zero.
5. If you do happen to go negative and stop promoting them you all of a sudden, coincidentally, get a load of affiliate managers, and even the head guy contacting you asking for promotion. It's like a magic light went off in their office that one of their biggest earners stopped promoting them. They hound you to get back on your sites, and all the time you're thinking - "hang on, you never contacted me before, and we earned you practically zero according to the stats, so why all of a sudden is my account the most important thing in the world to you?"
6. You still refuse to promote them, because it doesn't make any sense to do so - you're not earning money, right? So, you now get affiliate managers contacting you saying - "don't worry, we'll just set you up a new affiliate account and you can start from zero again".
This perpetual cycle of signing you up, robbing you, you walking away, and then them "doing you a favor" by setting you up again with a new account is how most of these guys work.
Most affiliate managers at Israel based programs are paid via a share of what you earn as an affiliate. Therefore they're incentivized to basically skim you. This is what happened a few years ago at William Hill. They near enough admitted managers had been skimming accounts, moved program, and then claimed everything was now kosher!
In response to the above comments about movement of staff between these companies - Josh Portnoi (Winner) used to be head of affiliates at William Hill. Most of these guys have been around most of the companies in Tel Aviv. Some companies even sit in the same office, and not just the same office, their desks are within talking distance! - Ladbrokes and Europartners. This leads to them regularly sharing information of all kinds.
1. Spam and harass you to sign up with them. You sign up, they seem to spam you even more not knowing you're already signed up.
2. You refer them a load of clicks, you get a good number of registrations, but conversion is strangely low when compared to performing bookmakers. They spin you some excuses.
3. After complaining about low earnings, you magically start earning money!, but you then get shaved through a number of methods - detagging of valuable players, shaving of revenue, strange methods of calculating net revenue that skims your earnings, or my favourite - tagging your account with a real winning player from elsewhere. They'll also cross promote to your referrals and sell player details to other casino/sports brands, so all of a sudden the 1 player you referred to 1 company is sold 10 other accounts you don't get paid for.
4. You sometimes see great earnings up to about the 24th of each month - spurring you on to promote them even harder. You then regularly see a massive (and very regular!) skim towards the end of the month, taking your revenues almost, conveniently, back to zero.
5. If you do happen to go negative and stop promoting them you all of a sudden, coincidentally, get a load of affiliate managers, and even the head guy contacting you asking for promotion. It's like a magic light went off in their office that one of their biggest earners stopped promoting them. They hound you to get back on your sites, and all the time you're thinking - "hang on, you never contacted me before, and we earned you practically zero according to the stats, so why all of a sudden is my account the most important thing in the world to you?"
6. You still refuse to promote them, because it doesn't make any sense to do so - you're not earning money, right? So, you now get affiliate managers contacting you saying - "don't worry, we'll just set you up a new affiliate account and you can start from zero again".
This perpetual cycle of signing you up, robbing you, you walking away, and then them "doing you a favor" by setting you up again with a new account is how most of these guys work.
Most affiliate managers at Israel based programs are paid via a share of what you earn as an affiliate. Therefore they're incentivized to basically skim you. This is what happened a few years ago at William Hill. They near enough admitted managers had been skimming accounts, moved program, and then claimed everything was now kosher!
In response to the above comments about movement of staff between these companies - Josh Portnoi (Winner) used to be head of affiliates at William Hill. Most of these guys have been around most of the companies in Tel Aviv. Some companies even sit in the same office, and not just the same office, their desks are within talking distance! - Ladbrokes and Europartners. This leads to them regularly sharing information of all kinds.