how to protect yourself from "shaving"?

[lauferb]

I saw in some forums including AGD that the term is "player shaving", the term does not sound as bad as it actually is.

so what is "shaving"?

it's a situation in which affiliate that brought a customer to a certain casino and this player is switching to play in another casino, and the reason for this switch is because of a certain interest of the aff program / online casino / software vendor that got into implementation

for example: affiliate brought some depositing active players and one of these players has a high player value, for example let's say that this player deposits 10000$ and looses 9000$ every month.

in this case the player value for the casino of this player is 1000$ per month.

BUT

the casino has to pay commision let's say 30% from this revenue to the affiliate who brought this player, so basically there is an interest of somebody is the chain of the online casino industry to "shave" the affiliate's profit.

The knowledge of "how to do it" also exists, for example the online casinos, aff programs and software vendors know the player value of this player, they know his contact details and more information about him (for example patterns of behavior and more...) and they can act in order to "help" this player switch to another casino or deal or something... in theory they can make a huge profit by doing this.

the affiliate does not know anything about this player and need to trust all the chains of the industry that something like this would not happen.

question is this:

how can an affiliate protect himself from this?
("ethics" in the online casino industry is not very strong... and I'm sure that things like this happen every day)

 

[Guard Dog]

The only way we can (IMO) is to watch conversions and retention. Those that are not converting and (more importantly) retaining your players - dump them.

It's the only way I know how, anyway.

 

[Vladi]

lauferb, there are many more ways an affiliate program can shave you than the one case you have mentioned.

They don't have to switch the player to another casino, they could:

- untag the player so you never see them in your stats
- tag the player but subsequently hide a couple of deposits
- create non-existant chargebacks or processor seizures
- RTG programs can use the "manager credits" fraudulently (eg Gambling Wages)
- reduce or stop paying "lifetime" commissions (eg Bwin)
- shut down the affiliate program (eg Grand Prive)
- or simply manipulate their stats database to say whatever they want

I am sure there are other ways too.

It is impossible to completely protect yourself from this, as often you are relying on trusting some of the least trustworthy people you could ever meet. Or they could be trustworthy but have no idea how to run a casino and when the shit hits the fan you can be sure they will look after themselves before you.

You can try sending through your own undercover players who document what they deposit and win/lose and see if the stats match up. And to be totally sure you need these players to keep depositing months or even years later as it would be very easy to shave a long term player off your account. So you will never get 100% coverage.

Like GD says, just get rid the worst converting or least profitable programs and accept that somewhere, somehow, you are being shaved. Its a cost of doing business in this industry I am afraid, just like shopkeepers have to deal with shoplifting.

 

[lauferb]

ok what there are things to do

ok there are things to do against this, basically there is a huge competition in the online casino industry and this plays very well into our hands because if there is a certain casino / aff program / software vendor that is caught doing this for example, and affiliates share this information than this "shaver" will be damaged a lot

maybe one good way how to start is simply to share information between affiliates that is: which are the most profitable aff programs / casinos / software vendors
so other affiliates will know this important information, new affiliates look for aff program to promote, they usually look at things that are less important for example: which programs offer a higher rev share, this information is basically promotion that comes from the aff programs and it's misleading some times, by just making a list of the most profitable aff programs it'll be good first of all because affiliates will have a better tool to see and decide which programs to choose

what you think?

 

[ultra100]

Great post Vladi.

I agree with GD. One of the key elements is to watch conversions, but especially retentions. Low player value is a "red flag" and a first sign that program could be doing things behind your back.

 

[CaseyM]

ok there are things to do against this, basically there is a huge competition in the online casino industry and this plays very well into our hands because if there is a certain casino / aff program / software vendor that is caught doing this for example, and affiliates share this information than this "shaver" will be damaged a lot

maybe one good way how to start is simply to share information between affiliates that is: which are the most profitable aff programs / casinos / software vendors
so other affiliates will know this important information, new affiliates look for aff program to promote, they usually look at things that are less important for example: which programs offer a higher rev share, this information is basically promotion that comes from the aff programs and it's misleading some times, by just making a list of the most profitable aff programs it'll be good first of all because affiliates will have a better tool to see and decide which programs to choose

what you think?

I thought we did this anyway in forums such as this one & GPWA, bad programs get a bad rep. I would also agree with another reply. The way I assess a program is to test test test. Keep in contact with players to try and ensure that what is happening is reflected accurately in your stats

 

[lauferb]

The only way we can (IMO) is to watch conversions and retention. Those that are not converting and (more importantly) retaining your players - dump them.

It's the only way I know how, anyway.

maybe it'd be worth it to add a section that talks about "shaving" to the platinum sponsor details page?

there is a section that talks about spam but IMO shaving it much more severe, spam is something that many units fight against (including Google) but player shaving is something that does not get much attention and I think that it is a huge problem today for affiliates, there is not even a real definition of this in the affiliate vocabulary, wikipedia for example does not include a definition of it but it does include a very very detailed definition of "spam".

(b.t.w I can add to wikipedia a definition of this, "affiliate shaving" I think that it'd stay since there are references to this phrase in the web in forums like AGD and GPWA, but wikipedia tends to delete information that is not backed up by Google news)

 

[baldidiot]

The only way we can (IMO) is to watch conversions and retention. Those that are not converting and (more importantly) retaining your players - dump them.

It's the only way I know how, anyway.

This is great advice. Besides, if they aren't converting (even if they aren't shaving) then why promote them?

Other than that I guess the only people that know are the aff programs.

 

[lauferb]

examples for shaving

yes probably it's the best solution to the problem that exists today, focus on profit

b.t.w aff program cannot know about shaving, they can also be victims to player shaving by the casinos,
and the casino can be victims of shaving by the software providers.

example for a scenario of casino that shaves aff. programs:

certain online casino is promoted by an affiliate programs:

the aff. program: 50% rev share to the casino and 50% rev share to the aff program, from the 50% that goes to the aff program 10% goes to the aff program and 40% to the affiliate.

affiliate brings a high value player to the casino from this aff. program

this player has a high player value of 10000$ per month

the casino has a financial interest to shave this player from both the aff. program and from the affiliate.

how?

any one of the ways that were mentioned by vladi in the beginning of this thread.

can the aff program know?

no, there is no way for it to know.

ethics?

yeah right...

example of scenario of software vendor that shaves off a casino:

software vendor has 2 casinos that it operates: casino X and casino Y
both casinos are practicably the same, same games, same everything, it's the same software vendor after all, only the logo of the casinos is different but the games are basically the same for both the casinos.

the software vendor has deals with the two casinos:

casino X: 25% rev share to the software vendor and 75% to the casino & aff program and affiliate

casino Y: 50% rev share to the software vendor and 50% to the casino & aff program and affiliate

affiliate brings a very high player-value player to the aff program that works with casino X that brings the player to the casino that brings the player to the software vendor

the software vendor has financial interest to shave this player from casino X to casino Y

how?

send contact information to casino Y that will be sent to the player and offer to him some high welcome bonus in order to register.
(or basically any other way that was mentioned by vladi)

can this be done?

yes

will the player switch?

yes, it's the same games after all and he'll get a nice bonus for this switch.

will casino X know?

no, he has no way to know.

ethics?

yeah right.

in conclusion, victims of shaving can be also the aff. programs and the online casinos