Castle casino to close

[ThePOGG]

Just had this drop into my mailbox;

Dear all,

Due to pending regulatory changes in key markets Castle Casino will soon be winding down our operations.

Following this change, the business model will no longer be sustainable and with regret we shall be shutting down the Castle brand in the coming months. This will start with the affiliate program, which will be deactivated on Friday 31st July.

Rest assured, before shut down of the website players will receive ample warning and all funds will be withdrawable.

We appreciate all of your hard work promoting us over the years and are disappointed this will have to end. All commissions up until the date of affiliate program closure will be honoured.

Kind Regards,
The Castle Affiliates Team

 

[Jason May]

Long Live The Legend of Castle Casino!

Sad to see Castle Casino go. At one time, as their blog network was ranking high in the UK serps Castle Casino was growing into a household name.

It seems the first major blow was the Penguin update that punished Sape links. No doubt that decimated the operation. I cant even begin to image the fear that must have set in. Google is really our enemy!

I remember back when I was working with SEO, I learned the only way to deal with constant fear was to become friends with it. Perhaps Castle Casino also made a friend of fear.

From there, the new UK licensing regime must have only made matters worse.

Next, as the legend of Castle Casino was gasping for its final breath, Duncan in his usual manner, tossed in a few late shots crippling the reputation of the once household name.

It would be nice if David jumped in and explained the chain of events which led to the demise of his legendary site.

Long Live the Legend of Castle Casino!

 

[CygX1]

Registered in Cyprus and Costa Rica... That is what used to work for US Casinos back in the days.

 

[ThePOGG]

Next, as the legend of Castle Casino was gasping for its final breath, Duncan in his usual manner, tossed in a few late shots crippling the reputation of the once household name.

Who's Duncan?

 

[LandofOz]

I'm sorry to see it go. It's one of the top live dealer casinos out there.

 

[ThePOGG]

I've been holding off on offering a response to 'Jason May's' post to see if they offered an answer to my question. At this stage I'd presume they've no intention of doing so and I feel the 'Duncan' that they highlighted as a factor in the demise of Castle casino is almost certainly me.

In the first instance I'd point out that this post was so sycophantic in its nature that in my opinion it's highly likely that this was written by someone who held a personal stake in the success of Castle casino. Between having their tongue lodged firmly up Castle casino's drainage ditch and blaming everything but the operation for the failure of the casino, that seems to me to be someone who isn't ready to accept their own culpability.

I'm going to be complete in my decomposition of this post so bear with me.

Firstly a "household name" would suggests that this was a brand that was commonly known by the public within the UK. Think William Hill, Ladbrokes, Gala Bingo, Bet365. I'm completely sure that even at the height of their operation Castle casino never came anywhere even close to achieving this sort of recognition. Ask anyone you know who isn't involved in the online gambling business if they know of Castle casino and I'm pretty sure I know what the answer's going to be. This was a Costa Rican licensed operator running on Visionary iGaming software - they were hardly competing in the premier leagues.

Secondly, if one Google update can so completely cripple your rankings that it becomes impossible to ever recover it seems pretty likely that the site was focusing on on some form of SEO loophole, doing something that wasn't in the users' bests interests and Google caught onto it and punished it. This is probably the most controversial statement I'll make in this post. I know many affiliates have suffered from the impact of updates and the changing of rules that have never been clearly defined in the first place. Still to blame the demise of an entire casino operation on one update doesn't suggest a well rounded approach.

Thirdly, UKGC regulation has been in the pipeline for years and it's always been a very strong bet that any casino or software provider that held licensing that was perceived by the market to be weak prior to the UKGC regulations kicking in wasn't likely to end up with a UKGC license. I'm not aware of a single operator that was functioning on a Costa Rican or even Cypriot license that managed to obtain a UKGC license. If the casino you were running's primary market was the UK and you held one of these licenses (or a few others) it's not like there weren't many warning signs of impending doom in the years running up to this point.

Of course, I wouldn't be posting any of the above if I hadn't been named as a cause of this casino's demise, so the last thing I'll look at is that accusation.

In some ways the accusation's a back handed compliment. Being attributed blame for "crippling the reputation" of a "household name" or brand that were even coming close to that level would suggest a substantial amount of influence within the industry. Realistically, if ThePOGG.com receives more than 1-2% of the traffic that truly big sites like CasinoMeister, AskGamblers, WizardOfOdds or LatestCasinoBonuses receive I'd be utterly dumbstruck. While I wouldn't diminish the success we've had, I also won't pretend we're something we're not. We're a small to small-medium affiliate at the moment. That being the case I don't think it's all that challenging to see the incongruity in suggesting that we could do any substantial damage to any sizeable operator.

Moreover, if anything we've stated was fundamentally untrue either providing supporting evidence or challenging legally would quickly have resolved any damage we were doing to Castle casino. The truth is that Castle casino - as with many of the operators using ViG software who all seemed to defer to the software provider in these issues - were seen to confiscate funds from players on a number of occasions, at ThePOGG and other mediation services, without providing supporting evidence to validate their decision. Of course we don't want to be associated with an operator involved in that type of practice.

I also don't think that our site has actually achieved significant rankings for any Castle casino related terms. We certainly haven't made any specific efforts to. I could be wrong about that though as I don't tend to keep a particularly sharp eye on this type of thing.

The simple truth is that Castle casino never made it onto our 'top list of industry bad guys', they just got our standard response to operators engaged in the practices they were engaged with. Given how many operators get this response from us it again strikes me as strange that 'Jason May' would be aware of our specific position on Castle casino if they didn't have a specific reason to be actively following reports on this brand.

It should also be noted that in my last communications with Castle casino in May of this year, I spent a deal of time specifically correcting issue with bonus terms for the entire ViG network of casinos. I'm not going to pretend we were on particularly good terms - this came off the back of a complaint where the operator had confiscated funds, their communication was distinctly lacking and other action was taken that I found questionable in nature - but as they did ultimately admit they'd made a mistake and pay the player I chose to invest my time at no cost to them providing feedback on their terms and ultimately gave the casino a positive report (http://thepogg.com/complaint/castle-bonus-winnings-removed/).

Ultimately I actually liked Dave Merry. He seemed a nice enough chap during the few interactions I had with him. While the one complaint I managed through him didn't get the response I'd ultimately hoped for, I accept that his and Castle's hands may have been tied by their software provider. But liking someone and understanding the predicament they may be in does not change the ultimate impact on players and to be viewed as responsible in any way given the role that the site has chosen requires that impact on players is the deciding factor in all situations.

One final piece of information - I believe that Dave Merry had actually moved on from this operation some time ago. I tried to contact him in March this year regarding the above mentioned complaint and never managed to get hold of him. At that time I heard some whispers from various associates that Dave was no longer with Castle. I can't confirm this is/was the case, but it's seems to be.

ThePOGG

 

[casinonewbie]

They got what they deserved so yes it must be your fault ThePOGG they have gone under
Speaking of the "big sites" like Askgamblers as you mentioned they still have them today rated at below, even though they are about to close....

• Good 7.75 Casino Rank Score
• #103 of 917 casinos

 

[Jason May]

My post was meant to be more of a eulogy and I never expected it to be read literally. That said, it was materially incorrect to list you as a factor of their demise. Therefore, I apologize if I caused you any grief.

I've been holding off on offering a response to 'Jason May's' post to see if they offered an answer to my question. At this stage I'd presume they've no intention of doing so and I feel the 'Duncan' that they highlighted as a factor in the demise of Castle casino is almost certainly me.

 

[ThePOGG]

That said, it was materially incorrect to list you as a factor of their demise. Therefore, I apologize if I caused you any grief.

The "material incorrect[ness]" of your post is the lesser half of this issue. Given that your statement was patently untrue, you went out and manufactured a reasons to take a stab at the work ThePOGG does on a public forum and felt within your rights to name me personally. Neither does this address my concerns that you actually work in some manner for Castle casino only further emphasizing my concerns with this operation and any future products they may put out.

Putting aside any possible connection to Castle casino, whoever you are you clearly have an axe to grind with me personally.

 

[Jason May]

The "material incorrect[ness]" of your post is the lesser half of this issue. Given that your statement was patently untrue, you went out and manufactured a reasons to take a stab at the work ThePOGG does on a public forum and felt within your rights to name me personally. Neither does this address my concerns that you actually work in some manner for Castle casino only further emphasizing my concerns with this operation and any future products they may put out.

Putting aside any possible connection to Castle casino, whoever you are you clearly have an axe to grind with me personally.

Why do you think you’re so important that I would care about you?
I don’t care about you. Believe it or not I like the vast majority of your work. As I said before, I gave a eulogy based on my snapshot opinion of the casino. It was never meant to be read literally. I apologized for my words. So just leave it at that.

If it makes you feel any better, I was an affiliate for Castle Casino many years ago. But, to be frank I never promoted them because I did not trust their affiliate program. They offered a large revenue share for life with no clear definition of the deductions. They were a white label so I knew they would be taking large hidden deductions. This is my #1 pet Peeve with casino affiliate programs. So I had no respect for their affiliate program from the beginning. But that said, I recognized the David vs. Goliath story and I knew the business was run by some young entrepreneurs so I was hoping for them to do well.

In those days they were ranking #1 in the UK serps for major keywords across their blog network. At the time, this was common knowledge amongst affiliates (like myself) targeting keywords like "online roulette". So you could say I had a certain competitive admiration for them. Nothing more.

The only feeling of negativity I ever felt towards you was a complaint where you took the side of a casino. I really don’t remember the details of the case. So just off the top of my head:

1. Player took free spins on registration with a max win cap
2. Player won a nominal amount from the free spins
3. Player made a deposit before the withdrawal was processed and won another nominal amount
4. Casino insinuated player had cheated on winnings from deposited funds but no details were provided
5. You took the side of the casino and further insinuated the player was likely cheating. Note 1
6. This was one of your guaranteed deposit casinos, but you didn’t mention this in the complaint.
7. You refused to pay the player because you didn’t want to pay the player via PayPal. You requested all his personal details for a wire then the player rejected. I wouldn’t provide you with my personal details either. So it read like you were ducking out on your Guarantee. The case ended with the player unpaid. Note 2

That’s really the extent of any negativity I have towards you. Like I said in the intro, I really don’t care about you.

Note 1
**This is where I got frustrated** because I am one of the few affiliates that believes players should always be given the benefit of the doubt. I don’t believe in predatory rules and I don’t believe that T&Cs should be read by players simply because if players knew they had to study the T&Cs for every detail then we would all be out of business. So when you took the side of the casino I was very disappointed. I am also disappointed every time I hear casinos cheating players out of their funds based on minor technicalities in the T&C e.g. all affpower casinos. I read many of your complaints and it seems you will side with a casino 100% as long as it’s noted in the T&C. I come from a different school of thought that believes T&Cs have no legal basis unless they are reasonable. I also believe that in contract law consumers should always be given the benefit of the doubt. This is where you and I butt heads.

Note 2
You automatically assumed the player was shady because he didn’t want to provide you with his personal details. Again, I believe in always giving players the benefit of the doubt. I couldn’t help to think this was a real double standard given you cried like a little baby when someone mentioned your personal details in the GPWA forum. People just don’t like giving out their personal details to random strangers. I don’t blame the guy one bit.

 

[ThePOGG]

Ah right - so you attacked me at the start of this thread and when I point out this was a baseless, unprovoked jab and you clearly have an axe to grind, you then claim to respect the work I do (making you seem the target of unfair aggression) and attack me again on a totally unrelated issue?

Let's take a quick look at the specific case that you highlighted, because I know exactly which issue it was - http://thepogg.com/complaint/slotty-vegas-removed-winnings-from-the-deposit/

This was against one of my guaranteed casinos. Slotty Vegas were not at all happy with the way the player played and I spent a good deal of time on the phone with their owner - who's a very knowledgeable person - pointing out that fundamentally the player had broken no rules. This would have ultimately resulted in Slotty Vegas and BETAT losing the Deposit Guarantee. I have the email chain where they were told that btw. That they didn't was due to the fact that they ultimately were prepared to do the right thing and just didn't want to be seen to do so by other players that were looking to flagrantly try to confuse the system (read between the lines as to what might have been the set up here).

At that point I made efforts to pay the player myself, as the guarantee would require without stating that this was a guarantee payment as at that time those came directly out of my pocket. At first I tried to send the player the payment via Paypal. Paypal rejected this as it was a gambling transaction. That was entirely my fault and resulted in the closure of the site's Paypal business account. As such I requested the player provide me personal details to allow me to send the funds by Western Union. The player repeatedly sent me SOMEONE ELSE'S personal details. When checked against their account these details were registered to an individual 50 miles away from the player's address. If you deal with player complaints, that's a big anti-fraud nono. Do you think a casino would ever send that payment? Nevertheless I repeatedly asked the player to provide their own details and the payment would be made. The player point blank refused to do so and decided they'd rather go to the regulator than provide me with their own details. To me, that's a very strange decision. So you're absolutely right, I ruled in favour of the casino because the player seemed point blank incapable of providing payment details that matched their account. Where the casino provide the roadblock to the resolution I rule in favour of the player. Where the player provides the roadblock I rule in favour of the casino. The player would have been paid and the complaint marked 'Resolved' had they been able to provide me with their own details.

This wasn't about "not wanting to give personal details out" - the player was more than happy to give all the necessary information for a person other than the person named on the account. That screams identity theft to me.

Any impartial casino rep want to step forward and give their thoughts on the above?

Also worth noting that this particular issue was taken to CasinoMeister before ThePOGG. They also ruled in favour of the casino though for different reasons.

That is a strange case to choose - as it was ruled in favour of the casino it didn't get a lot of press. Did you just spend some time digging through the complaints I've published looking for one that you could highlight? Relatively recent, against a sealed casino, and one where the report doesn't give a complete picture? For not being able to remember the details of the case, you managed to give a pretty astute bullet point summary of events (i.e. I struggle to believe that you compiled the list without looking at the report). Everything about your contributions to this thread scream "stitch-up" to me. When the conversation about the issue at hand clearly isn't going your way you try to change the subject and find another avenue to discredit me.

--------------------------------------------------------

Shall we take a look at another Deposit Guarantee case? One where the casino were stripped of the seal and I personally paid out more than was on the line in the Slotty Vegas issue - http://thepogg.com/complaint/18-bet-wont-pay-legal-playing/. Btw, given that the casino had returned the player's deposits and it was winnings I paid to the player, this wasn't even technically covered by the Deposit Guarantee, I just felt that it was the right thing to do.

Or how about another case against a non-sealed casino where I offered to pay out over $7k if the casino didn't pay the player - http://thepogg.com/complaint/skybook-non-random-casino/

It should also be pointed out that in the Castle casino complaint above there was some 'off the record activity' that resulted in me offering to pay the player's £5k balance directly if the casino did not resolve the issue. That didn't receive publication at the time as I gave the casino the benefit of the doubt over activity that I found very questionable.

All within the last year I might add. Given that you read "many" of our complaints, surely you came across some of the above?

Interesting that you didn't choose to speak about the 18Bet case or the Skybook case that received FAR more coverage both on and off site.

Apparently it's okay for you to try to drag my name through the dirt for being unfair to Castle casino when they did not provide information to justify the seizure of funds, and it's also okay for you to try and drag my name through the dirt for being unfair to players in what was at the very least a very dubious case. You're just one of those affiliates that believes "players should always be given the benefit of the doubt" as long as it's not a casino that you're representing in some fashion.

ThePOGG

P.S. There's also a MASSIVE difference between providing personal details in private to receive a payment and having someone post them on a public forum. Unlike some other sites, I go to great lengths to prevent player or casino rep personal information being published on ThePOGG. While you may not be aware of this I've received personal threats from both players AND operators doing the work I do, so publishing personal information carries substantial risks.

P.P.S. You might want to check your information regarding AffPower - I don't believe I've supported them in a case yet.

 

[gamingaffiliatesguide]

If it makes you feel any better, I was an affiliate for Castle Casino many years ago. But, to be frank I never promoted them because I did not trust their affiliate program. They offered a large revenue share for life with no clear definition of the deductions. They were a white label so I knew they would be taking large hidden deductions. This is my #1 pet Peeve with casino affiliate programs. So I had no respect for their affiliate program from the beginning. But that said, I recognized the David vs. Goliath story and I knew the business was run by some young entrepreneurs so I was hoping for them to do well.

What are your affiliate sites?

 

[ThePOGG]

I wonder how 'Jason May' feels about Castle casino now that they've pulled a GrandPrive?

http://www.gpwa.org/forum/castle-casino-close-223390.html#post802381