Brightshare chargeback

fulltimer

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Brighshare is claiming large chargeback amounts in my affiliate account.

A player I referred to All Slots back in April 2012 has now suddenly decided to chargeback.

$ -5394.75 in October 2013, wiping out all my commissions for that month.
$ -508.07 in November 2013, plus now there's a whole heap of other players, some referred in 2010, charging back. Total chargeback in November is $ -1056.59.

Marcia told me they can't do anything about these chargebacks and that it's apparently normal for a player who has been playing for years to suddenly chargeback. And apparently this player can keep doing it month after month and they can't do anything about it!

I've worked in a casino, albeit not in payments, but I'm quite sure a player who makes a large chargeback will result in the account being locked, or at least that player won't be able to deposit using the credit card they used to chargeback. No casino will allow for a player to continue playing and to continue to charge back! It just doesn't make business sense - except when the business case is to ripoff an affiliate.

Has anyone else noticed an increase of chargeback amounts in Brightshare?

Besides these chargebacks, Brightshare haven't been paid for November. It's now the 28th of December.

I'll make sure to visit their stand at LAC and give them a piece of my mind and to find another mobile casino program to promote.
 

KasinoKing

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By coincidence (?) I had my first ever charge-back at Brightshare in June too. (Been promoting them since 2006).
Thing is, because I have their brands ranked very low on my site these days (due too their stupidly high WRs) I only do tiny business with them (not like the "good old days" when they were one of my best earners), I didn't spot the CB when I checked June's stats. It's possible I suppose, that it wasn't actually showing at the time (?). Anyway, I only found out about it when chasing them for an overdue payment in November.
The CB wiped out all my earnings for May to November (May was below the minimum, so hadn't been paid).

One thing I can't quite get my head around, is they seem to pass the FULL charge-back amount on to the affiliates (had this with a different affy program too).
e.g. Suppose the CB was $400 and my RS was 25% - they take the full $400 off my earnings.
Surely, the casino has lost $400, but I should only lose 25% of that = $100.
Can anyone explain this to me?

KK
 

muffincrumbs

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They are the very bane of all that is good... The evil charge-back. I can't think of a way that the entire amount could be deducted. Are you sure the rev share just dipped a similar amount?
 

AussieDave

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Find it extremely hard to believe, anyone could go to their bank and claim a charge-back for payments stretching back to 2010. Especially if they've been depositing for years with this method. I had a case where I'd been paying a hosting provider for a couple of years on a monthly basis. The business got sold and the new owners were dicks. I moved and they charged my CC twice and I had a hell of time trying to get the money back. Eventually I got it charged-back but that was only after the Banking Ombudsman got involved.

I think Brightshare are pulling a swifty. Have they provided you with any proof? If not, I'd be demanding it!

It's all too easy for these programs to claim the "charge-back" routine...

One thing I can't quite get my head around, is they seem to pass the FULL charge-back amount on to the affiliates (had this with a different affy program too).
e.g. Suppose the CB was $400 and my RS was 25% - they take the full $400 off my earnings.
Surely, the casino has lost $400, but I should only lose 25% of that = $100.
Can anyone explain this to me?

Simple, it is a scam... Just another way to skim affiliate earnings!
 
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fulltimer

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There's some screenshots on Casinoaffiliate.net that I just uploaded.

From these you can see how fucked up the reports are in Brightshare. One player's total deposit amount is $140 but chargeback amount is $317. How the fuck does that work? How come October's chargeback is greater than the negative revenue share!

I take screenshots on a daily basis these days of all affiliate program stats. I recommend doing the same! I'm looking for software that can log in and take screenshots, but I might just develop it myself because there's scrolling involved with 100 or so player rows.
 

Guard Dog

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Once upon a time I didn't trust an affiliate program and I created a stats scraper (even gave that scraper to a couple of others). I gave it some 'smarts' to detect oddities in stats. 2 of us found that players were removed after depositing and I found much more than that. This affiliate program no longer exists, but it was a fun exercise.

It does take some time to develop,though, and isn't always worthwhile.
 

slotplayer

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They are the very bane of all that is good... The evil charge-back. I can't think of a way that the entire amount could be deducted. Are you sure the rev share just dipped a similar amount?

I've seen it first hand, not at brightshare though. A bj player came through a higher rev % link, deposited $250 and $250 was then listed as a chargeback.
 

fulltimer

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Yes the entire amount has been deducted from my commissions! And in one case the player has charged back more than they deposited! Must be a dumb fucking casino to allow that to happen! Have a look at the screens on Casinoaffiliate.net where I just uploaded some screenshots.
 

KasinoKing

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Yes the entire amount has been deducted from my commissions! And in one case the player has charged back more than they deposited! Must be a dumb fucking casino to allow that to happen! Have a look at the screens on Casinoaffiliate.net where I just uploaded some screenshots.
It's worth mentioning that Brightshare (Jackpot Factory Group) are still accredited at Casinomeister and he does accept Pitch-A-Bitches from affiliates against affy programs as well as by players against casinos. (My one and only PAB there was an affiliate-related one - and he got it sorted).
So if anyone has any proof of wrong-doing or them breaking their own T&Cs, it would do everyone a favour if you would go and sign-up there and submit a PAB.

KK
 

AussieDave

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It's worth mentioning that Brightshare (Jackpot Factory Group) are still accredited at Casinomeister
Have they got the Wild Jack problem sorted yet?
http:// www. affiliateguarddog. com/forums/seabrook-limited-nexigames-limited-t6975.html#post45346

Above link draws question to Spiral Solutions honesty in telling players and affiliates the truth.
 
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Perc

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Just thought I'd add that I've also had chargebacks at Brightshare in the past that were more than the player ever deposited.

One player signed up, deposited a total of $701.83, and somehow charged back $1159.02 all in the same month.

I asked about it, but no reasonable explanation was given (as usual).
 

muffincrumbs

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There is a decent amount of accusations here with no official response. That is not a good thing when it seems a lot of people are having the same problem.
 

AussieDave

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One player signed up, deposited a total of $701.83, and somehow charged back $1159.02 all in the same month.

I asked about it, but no reasonable explanation was given (as usual).

Unless they are slogging you for comp(s) given to this player too.

Though, a comp, if it's not cashed out, costs a MGS casino (in real cash expenditure), around the 18 - 20% mark of the total comp/bonus given. But, if your not careful (errr wise to this), you could find you'll get slogged for the entire amount, by the aff program, claiming it as a total cash loss. Be mindful of this rort ;)
 

Guard Dog

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I did ask Marcia to respond. She is usually quick to email me back, leaving me to believe she is on vacation for the holidays. Give her some time, I'm sure she will respond.
 

Marcia

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Hi All,

First of all, I apologize for not answering this thread sooner. I didn't get an email notification of the post because it's not in BrightShare's forum section.
Nor did I get your email, Andy. Unless it ended up in my spam box along with three emails from fulltimer - no excuse, just an explanation.

OK, let's get down to the points raised:

1. A player typically has up to 180 days to charge back (some cards are 120 days). So he cannot chargeback from a year and a half ago.

2. This explains how the chargeback can be larger than the purchase in any particular month - he can be charging back as far as half a year. He could purchase $10 in December, but be charging back $1000 from September (for instance).

3. It is NOT true that we take all the chargeback from the affiliate. We take only his revshare percentage. As you can see in the screen shot below. The CB amount was $5394.75. Since the player was locked, and therefore inactive in the casino, that makes the net revenue -$5394.75. The last column shows the affiliate's revshare earnings as $-1888.16 which is the percent revshare.

CB.jpg

If any of you see the entire CB amount being deducted from your affiliate account, let me know: your account number, the player account number (as shown in BS) and the amounts. Screenshot if possible.

4. Regarding when chargebacks show up in your BS reports (obviously, I can't speak for other programs).....our chargebacks are put into reports on or about the 10th of the current month - when we receive them from MGS. No way were they put into June's report in November. There would be no logic to doing that, we've already paid you for June. They are put in the current month - never going back months!

I hope I've covered most of the CB questions raised here.
Always feel free to contact me directly or through our forum.

In the meantime, have a wonderful 2014 - with all your dreams come true!

Marcia
 

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Perc

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2. This explains how the chargeback can be larger than the purchase in any particular month - he can be charging back as far as half a year. He could purchase $10 in December, but be charging back $1000 from September (for instance).

That still doesn't explain how someone can charge back more than they EVER deposited.

This was pulled from my November 2012 stats:

AccountRegistrationCurrencyCountryTotal PurchaseCharge BackNet RevenueCPARevenue Share
Asr1...315Nov 17 2012CADCanada701.831159.02-918.390-321.44

As you can see, the player clearly registered in November, deposited $701, and charged back $1159 all in the same month. There were (obviously) no deposits from previous months to charge back.

Of course I know that a player "could purchase $10 in December, but be charging back $1000 from September", but that is obviously not the case here, so can you please explain this?
 

AussieDave

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Nothing leveled or implied, though purely from a practical and realistic point of view, is the Brightshare rep or any other rep here or elsewhere, going to state anything other what has been said, here. My advice to any affiliate who thinks the numbers don't add-up, is to think with your head. No program, is going to come out and admit shaving, even if they are shaving their affiliates. ;)
 

Coral

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--- I have received a response and my issue is cleared up now :)
 
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